Modern Vespa

It seems that way too many fuel pumps are failing and Piaggio is obviously aware of it as they cover the repairs under warranty.
But it seems that this should be a recall matter as it is a safety concern. Imagine being stranded in traffic with a broken down bike. Not cool.

Thing is, to report this one has to have a bike that has had this failure.

The following link is used:

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

Having your bike fixed under warranty is nice, but the moment it is out of warranty and you have a failure with a part that is known as being defective, well, you're on your own. Not cool.

Why don't we start a separate thread so we can track it here ourselves. Year, mileage etc... just a thought if it hasn't been done already.

I have had my Vespa GTS for about 4 months. Bought a used 2007 with 4000 miles

Needed new Lambda probe- $180
Needed new rear tire- $113 and every 5-6K thereafter

Then I hear on this forum about - crappy fuel pump $200-$300 ?
- crappy voltage regulator $200-$300?
- crappy lambda probes $180
Some kind of service every 5000k miles - $200?

I love the scooter and it's versatility, but this is not a cheap or reliable (it seems) mode of transportation. Given the initial cost new (!) and cost of ownership, it seems we need to send a message to Piaggio that they need to build a better scooter. Or I can see Honda, when they bring over the 300 to the US, kicking ass.

I really think this is why you see so many nearly new Vespas for sale. Many people bought them as toys and then realized they are expensive in time and money to maintain. Most of these people are better off with a Yamaha, Honda or Chinese scooter. Same fun less money.

How does help you if you get stranded due to a faulty fuel pump?
The point of this is to get a positive reaction for a permanent fix.

If scooter made it to that point Piaggio made it past the warranty period regadless of the miles on the scooter

If the fuel pump was on a recall, it does not matter if the bike was out of warranty.

At least we'd have some sort of count on numbers gone bad among participating MV members, rather than simply, "It seems that way too many fuel pumps are failing..."?

Good point.

So anyone have real numbers of the failed pumps reported to piaggo. I'm almost positive record are keep by Piaggio of all reports or claims made.

Which would be useful for chatting. MV having an informal count isn't going to mean a thing to the NHTSA.

The web site desmo provided takes detailed information by year, make, model, VIN and more. It's designed to capture failures one vehicle at a time with sufficient specifics to track the issue.

If your fuel pump has failed, report it. If your friend's pump has failed, encourage them to report it. That's where the government will get the necessary stats.

Now, if folks posted that they have reported, that would give a feel for how many pings NHTSA has received, as well as a community "feel" for the magnitude of the problem.

Great idea, desmo.

Same holds true for blown exhaust gaskets....can strand you as well, DESPITE the recall and re-engineered headpipe. I agree, there is a problem with the fuel pumps (and exhaust gaskets, and headpipes, voltage regulators and...?) but I'm not sure the notion of a permanent fix exists.

Every vehicle has certain Achille's Heels which are part of their, er personality. Even a new, redesigned fuel pump can fail later....

These scooters have shown their exhaust systems, a number voltage regulators and now certain fuel pumps to be an inherent issue. I don't think that will change, but agree that the bad batch of fuel pumps, or those which prove faulty should be replaced, either pre-emptively under warranty, or after if it falls into the affected group.

Thread w/ failed fuel pumps that I have so far found:
325 miles, dead fuel pump & Vespa roadside assistance
GTS 250 Fuel Pump
2009 GTS250 pffffft!
Vespa wouldnt start!!!
Fuel Pump problems?
My 300
Weird 300
Fuel pump
Possible fuel pump problem or not?
GTS reliability issue?
300 GTS Died
Whats wrong with my GTS300 ?
Wow. Brand New GTS Trouble
Failing Relationship
GTS Fuel Pump Failure
GTS250 Stalls............help.
fuel pump problem on GTS 250ie
GTS 250 SUPER UPDATE

There's more, lots more but I gotta get back to work!

It doesn't, but it's nice to know a round-about idea of how many others out there are experiencing the same problems. I understand the need for a permanent fix and I was agreeing with what you were saying. I was suggesting a thread dedicated solely to the problem. What's your beef?

Luckily my fuel pump was replaced already,
But I'm a bit miffed that my Lamda Probe wasn't replaced under warranty.

I had to pay to have it replaced,
Even though I had a month left on my one year used scooter warranty.

Grrrr....

Why would you pay for that? Did they give you some BS story or what?

Rib eye, yours?

I misunderstood, LouisQ pointed out my misunderstanding, and now I am 100% A1 cherry on the top in agreement with you.

butt-steak

Time to move on I guess, There is a new dealer in town,
They have a Piaggio license too to boot and they sell BMW's as well as Vespa's..

Seems with the shake up in Toronto and Canada for that matter,
We've been left out of the warranty game.

Oh well more water under the bridge.

I'm guessing the Govt mandated/endorsed ethanol fuel is an issue behind most of the fuel pump issues

fried okra

http://pure-gas.org/

http://pure-gas.org/printable.jsp?nocopy=true&stateprov=VA

I haven't heard of the lambda probe issue. The tire thing does suck a little. I actually hear of people on this board only getting 3k out of some tires, particularly the stock Savas. You won't have the fuel pump problem; it's only affecting the new/2010 models. I think it's only affecting the GTS 300, probably because that's all that is made now for 2010. Supposedly, Yamaha had a big fuel pump issue a couple of years ago; someone recently posted about it on this board. The voltage regulator problem doesn't seem to be incredibly prevalent. Don't replace stuff until it quits working, unless it's warranty work.

By service are you referring to fluid changes and other consumable parts? Every vehicle requires some sort of servicing and replacement of fluids and parts. $200 is pretty cheap compared to what I pay for a service on any of my BMW cars. You can also learn to do alot or most of the servicing yourself. There is a vast amount of information and knowledgeable people on this forum to help you. Plus, you can order parts online or get them from a dealer.

Every vehicle has its problems. I hate to burst the bubble, but these things aren't made in Germany or Japan. They're Italian. Name one reliable Italian vehicle. A lot of people bought them for looks. That's how it is with Italian vehicles. If you want reliability, you lose a little on looks.

That said. I do love mine and have not had any problems. I am sure that I would feel otherwise if I had a lemon, like some of the people on this board and one person I know personally. I hope you come to enjoy yours and are not bothered by some of these things.

Unfortunately that is not correct. If you check some of the links I provided, the 250s are also affected.

Then why aren't there fuel pump issues in cars, other brands of motos etc?

Yamaha had a fuel pump problem a couple of years ago, maybe 2 years. I don't know if it was ethanol related or not. I don't believe the GTS problem is ethanol related. Seems to be more of an electronics issue.

Isn't that a little pessimistic and negative? Just for the record, my 2007 GTS has over 29,000 miles on it with none of what you are afraid of. It has been quite reliable overall.

Also, if paying these high prices that you quote is a problem, you may want to consider doing such work yourself. I even find it fun and I don't do it for the money but for the quality of work that I can guarantee.

What? Now you tell me that scooters need to be serviced periodically and the rear tire wears out after a few thousand miles? I'm outraged!

You know, some of this stuff is going a bit far. One problem with boards is that everybody with a problem posts and few people without the problem post so you end up with a skewed picture of what is really going on. Some way of gathering better numbers on things like the fuel pump issue would be useful. And some folks seem to have a lower tolerance for periodic maintenance or wear issues than others. Yes, rear tires wear out - especially if you have an aggressive riding style. Yes, belts wear out. Yes, batteries have a limited life. Some of this stuff just comes with the territory.

For concern.

The 300 GTS and late 250 have fuel pumps from a different manufacturer in Asia, and these have been failing.

Any fault with EFI motors is a pain in the proverbial and should be addressed LOUDLY when it is not an isolated case.

OLD MOD exactly. As the years go by piaggio is out sourcing more parts (as is most everything we buy these days) and with out some one doing some good quality control were likely to see more and more of this I would bet money that they started to use a lot more out sourced stuf starting with the LX series. I have a 2003 LT that has never had any problems and i doubt the ET'S have either. Just sayin

Wow. Tough crowd- The point I was making is that there is enough upkeep already without parts failing. Especially fuel pumps that quit with no warning.
I understand the service intervals and do my own work on my cars and the Vespa when possible.

New to the forum and sorry for pissing you off with my opinion.

No worries SB, on any forum there's always someone who is gonna jump all over a statement. It's the way of the internet world ...

I hear what you say about the 'normal' costs to keep these running. Much higher than I imagined too. My motorbikes cost much less for maintenance/service than do these scoots!

But it's worth cuz they are so much fun.
Anyway, anyone who has had a fuel pump failure, please log into the NHTSA site and register it otherwise it will never get a redesign or be re-sourced from a better supplier.

Link provided at top of this thread.

A recall would involve them having a better replacement part, which I don't believe they do.

MAX your right. Same with the LX fuel gauges. People got them fixed under warranty and they still didn't work Had a sears stove with a bad mother board they replaced it 3 times and i ended up getting a new/different type stove because they had no replacement parts Kept replacing it with the defective ones

But a recall will cause them to source a better part...
NHTSA is not going to let them replace it with the same.

There's general agreement on MV that the GTS exhaust design is weak. The earlier design which caused brake failure when it blew was a safety hazard. But the newer design prevents brake failure.

A difference between the current exhaust issue and fuel pump failures (assuming they can happen while riding) is that one makes the scooter noisy and the other could kill you. The severity of the failure mode is an important factor in recalls. One would hope that Piaggio would be responsible (or afraid of US liability laws) and initiate any safety-related recall without government prodding.

Assuming they can happen while riding is the difference between a nuisance, and a potentially dangerous situation as far as fuel pumps are concerned.

Anyone whose fuel -pump has failed should report the event to NHTSA, perhaps a replacement program can be made and as it should. Piaggio won't do it without a governmental boot up it's arse, I believe thats a given.
A safety item is a safety item after all. These are "premium" scooters, priced and marketed as such.

But, there are plenty of GT200L which enjoy the same poor exhaust bushing design as the "old" GTS one's, potentially causing the same brake-line failure as the GTS 250 had....yet were not recalled as such but are no less a safety issue however than a failing fuel pump, but also not a recipient of government recall. Why? Perhaps not enough reported incidents of catastrophic failure.

But, the GT200L COULD still experience the same problem, has not been recalled for the weakness, and now, to me the exhaust joint is an Achille's Heel...a maintenance item of interest, additional concern and extra attention to it's owners.

Of course the GT200L I mention is just one example. Whether it's the exhaust gasket failure, headshake or "tank-slapper" (not just affecting Vespas), failing final drives (BMW motorcycles, a BIG problem which BMW is loathe to admit), or any number of other things every machine has certain potential problem-areas which need to be considered by it's owners, even after "rectified" by recall.

In other words, the onus for making certain your machine is roadworthy is ultimately yours. If you think a recall is worthy, contact NHTSA, and if NHSTA does make the manufacturer react, don't take for granted that the problem is fixed once, and for all...forever.

If you know a machine has a design "anomaly" or the propensity for an unwanted behavior like headshake, or exhaust gaskets failing, it is in your best interests to be mindful and take action around that potential issue throughout the ownership period.

Bump to make this easier to find.
Seems there have been quite a few more failures since I posted this.

Just filled out the form online. Thanks.

Bumped so Asor can log his failure.

I also just filled out the form online.