Modern Vespa

I'm on vacation and rode the gtv into town. Went to ride back and it won't start. All lights come on, fuel pump whirs, but starter won't go.

I'm seeing the check engine light come on and the red security light flashes once long then two short. Then the check engine and red light goes out.

Any ideas, can someone look up the diagnostic codes- if that's what the red lights are.

Thanks

Here are the immobilizer error codes for the GTS (250cc).
from the thread: GTS engine light on dash Good luck with it!

found this on another thread after googling " Vespa GTS diagnostic led long two short"

Best
Miguel
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The Quasar has an ECU with a separate immobiliser which is built into the aerial, so the ECU must obtain authority from the aerial (active antenna).

Keys should not be on a metal key ring or with other keys. Sometimes this can upset the system.

To Diagnose the system, turn the ignition on with a Normal key (not the master key) and note the LED on the dash.

Listed below is what options the LED will show, find out what yours does, get the reference letter (IE yours is doing as described in C... then go further down for more details on the fault and cure)

A= Single 2sec flash, then LED stays OFF.

B= Single 2sec flash, then 2 quick 0.5sec flashes, then LED stays ON.

C= Single 0.7sec flash, then 1 quick 0.5sec flash, then LED stays ON.

D= Single 0.7sec flash, then 2 quick 0.5sec flashes, then LED stays ON.

E= Single 0.7sec flash, then 3 quick 0.5sec flashes, then LED stays ON.

Further details on the codes above...

A= ECU is not programmed.
The LED gives a single two second flash. The Engine management light will be on.
You should get this code when you have fitted a new ECU.
The immobiliser system is working correctly and only needs programming.

B= ECU is not programmed. Transponder is not detected.
The LED gives a single two second flash, then two short flashes, then comes back on..
The ECU is not programmed (as above) but also the chip in the key has not been detected.
You must resolve the transponder problem before trying to program the ECU.
The master key will give this fault if the chip is hinged out.
If you have another key try that, if it is still not detected it is probably the aerial.
Verify that the aerial is correctly located and secure in it's mounting around the ignition lock.

C= Break in the Serial line.
A single short flash, pause, then a second short flash, LED then comes back on.
There is a break in the wire between the ECU and the aerial (active antenna).
The Orange / White wire on pin 7. is the link.

D= Transponder is not detected.
A single short flash, then two short flashes, then comes back on.
The chip in the key has not been seen.
Either there is a fault with the key or the aerial.
If you have another key try that, if it is still not detected it is probably the aerial.
Verify that the aerial is correctly located and secure in it's mounting around the ignition lock.

E= Transponder is not recognised.
A single short flash, then three short flashes, then comes back on.
The chip in the key is seen be is not recognised.
The key is not programmed into the immobiliser memory.
You are using the wrong key or it needs to be programmed into the immobiliser memory.

Only when the LED remains OFF should the engine start.

Dealers can use the Digitec or Axone tester to read fault codes from the ECU about the problem, but it doesnt tell us much more than the above info, although you can see how many keys there are coded to the ECU etc.

If you have a immobilizer fault that just suddenly appears, and its LED flashing code works out to be A in the above table, then before you try anything else, check the HT lead and plug cap, It is possible that extreme electrical interference from a faulty HT circuit could upset the immobiliser. Plug cap must be at least 5000 ohms. Change the cap and lead if suspect. A resistor spark plug must be used. Then try re-programming the immobiliser. If it will not re-program then it is faulty.

A normal fully working machine should do the following LED sequence..

SERVICE Key ON, One short 0.7sec flash then LED OFF... Machine will start and run.

Or if you use the master key....

Master Key ON, One short 0.7sec flash, then a number of short 0.5sec flashes then LED OFF... machine will start and run. (the number of short 0.5sec flashes depends on the amount of keys you have coded to the system upto a maximum of 7, so 2 flashes means 2 working keys and so on.)

Ok, I have little knowledge of this stuff. But from the immobilizer code manual -

LED Flashing Codes - one 2 sec followed by two .5sec them off.

1. Immobilier not programmed
2. Transponder is not detected
3. Engine will run to 2000rpm

The immobilizer knows the ignition has been turned on but it has not been able to detect the
transponder chip in the key.
Possible reason for transponder chip not being detected.
1. The transponder chip is damaged or missing from the key.
* Try another key.
2. The aerial is damaged, un-plugged or not correctly positioned
* Un-plug the aerial from the CDI and check the aerial for continuity.
Aerial resistance = 7 to 9 ohms. If resistance is wrong replace the aerial.
* Check that the black plastic aerial housing is securely clipped into position around
the ignition switch.
* Inspect the pins in the plug and socket for signs of damage or corrosion.

Also make sure the key is not on a ring or with other keys, as these can sometimes upset the immobilizer reading the key chip.

Hope that helps.

Jack

Edit - all of us at the same time

Great minds think alike!!
Best
Miguel

thanks all, looks like the immobilizer is kaput. I just finished towing he scoot about 200 miles to our vacation spot so maybe something shook loose. what's puzzling is it started right up when I pulled it from the trailer, we rode into town. Parked it. then nothing. maybe is was a little from the trailer ride and the rider into town finished it off?

the key I'm using is on the same ring it's been on for a year. there's nothing else on it.

the red key is at home, so trying another key will need to wait until I get back. sucky way to start a vacation, but at least I was able to retrieve it with my truck and trailer again fairly easily.

well, I'm home now and both keys do the same thing. I hopes it's just a dislodged aerial

If you remove the glovebox, you can access the ignition switch. There is the possibility that the ring that fits around the key-cylinder has become dislodged. It just snaps into holes around the key-cylinder. When I bought my first Vespa, I removed the glovebox so I could wire an accessory plug directly to the battery and I inadvertently dislodged mine. Took me about 30 minutes to figure out what I had done and then, DUH', I figured it out. It's worth the effort to take a look. All you need is a phillips head screwdriver to remove the glovebox.

I'll get round to introducing myself soon but in the meantime I run a GTS300 and a PX200 as well as other scoots and bikes. I've owned a GT200, GTS250 and both were ultra reliable and clocked up serious miles as a daily ride. My 300 has been less so. New fuel pump, new exhaust header and then the other day I hit a pot hole and the engine quit, instantly. Coasted home (50 yards) and the red light is on and the cooling fan is whirring away. Checked all the fuses in the glove box and the two at the front of the engine bay. I then found another 15amp fuse at the left hand side of the engine bay. It had blown. Replaced it and everything is happy again. I checked with the dealer and they had never heard of this. This fuse protects the ECU (they say). Was it a fail safe from hitting the pot hole that killed the engine and sent it into a 'protect' mode as if it had been in a collision?. Don't know but 2 things have caused total failure so far, the fuel pump and this fuse. Still love the scoot though.

Paul

Thanks all. I dropped it at the dealer for repairs and some regular service while it's there. I'll follow up with the diagnosis once I know what happened.

well, turns out the problem was nothing anyone suggested here so let's add this to the troubleshooting guide - a blown fuse!

the fuse for the brake light was blown, causing the ignition circuit to not detect the brake was engaged which prevented it from completing the circuit to the starter from the ignition.

such a simple fix, I don't know why I didn't troubleshoot the obvious things first.

Well, that's a new one. Never heard of this happening to anyone before.
Glad you got it fixed.

Which fuse? Any idea why it blew?
Miguel

He said it was the brake light fuse. Seems improbable but that's what the dealer told him.

Thx XLR8. Read right past it in his post. It's still early here in CA.
Best
Miguel

Martys' post put me in curiosity mode. I went to the garage and started my GTV............and while it was running, I pulled the #9 fuse (brake light fuse that is also wired to the starting system). If the scooter is running and the fuse is removed (or blows), the engine keeps running but once the engine is shut down, of course it won't start due to the fact that this fuse is also wired into the starting system when you pull the brake lever to hit the start button. I already knew that this fuse was connected to the starter system but after reading this thread, I was concerned that if it blows, that the engine would shut down while it was running. It's good to know that it doesn't. **I had misread his initial post and thought that the scooter had shut down while he was riding it.

*If I were Martys, I would be concerned as to why this fuse went bad. Yes, fuses can go bad but we have had a few reports of wiring harnesses that were either routed poorly or installed "too short" from the factory resulting in wires chafing and shorting. I would keep some spare fuses in the glovebox and see what happens. If it blows again, something is causing it to short. Glad to hear you got it fixed.

I had an X9 that intermittently blew brake light fuses - to the extent that I had to keep starting it by shorting out the starter relay with long-nosed pliers each time! The intermittency was eventually traced to a bit of harness that had rubbed on a sharp bit inside all the front plastic, and when taped up was fine thereafter.

It wasn't much fun riding knowing the brake lights weren't working!

I once called roadside assistance when I couldn't get my GTV to start.
The engine kill switch was on.
I always shut off with the key, so I didn't even think about checking it.

good advice, thanks for running the test on your own scoot. I plan on putting a spare fuse kit together and leaving it in the glovebox.

SCOOTER PAUL said it might have been the fuse in his above post. Fuse protects the ECU which makes sense. Glad you got it fixed.

yup, ScooterPaul called it right, though for me it wasn't the ECU fuse, just a brake light fuse.

goodness all around.