Modern Vespa

Got back from vacation and took a ride tonight. The first few miles were great then I noticed the check engine light was on. I pulled over and it went out. Started off at about half throttle and within a few seconds it came on again. Rolled off the throttle and after a few seconds of coasting it went off. Took off slower and again within a few seconds it came on again. Stopped and you guessed it...it went off. My first thought was oil but the oil level was good. Anyone have an idea?

yup your scooter is pissed off at you for leaving it behind while you went on vacation and is acting up now like a 2 yr old. Tell it you put it in time out if it don't start behaving properly.

now seriously. when was the last time you reset the maintenace icons. in the service manual on page 25 of the elect sect. which letter light are you getting?

I have a momentary check engine light that comes on after startup and disappears after the first couple minutes or first couple accelerate/cruise/stop cycles.

I haven't figured it out, but judging by the air filter it didn't have a proper 15,000km service by dealer before I owned it, so I don't know if it's a system reminder. My maintenance icon isn't displayed though.

Because it's a momentary check light it doesn't register an error code that can be read, so it's a bit of a mystery for now to me

A friend who has had severl Ducati's, one of his 749's a couple bikes back had a similar symptom, he never had a problem nor found what it was, and he had his bike serviced by a Ducati specialist a couple hours away who services/deals/builds turbo/metho/nitro drag bikes all Ducati so figured if they couldn't nail it down, I'm not going to tear my hair out.

Check the radiator fluid, just to be sure. If low, sensor could be heating up. guessing.

OAD may be on to something. I left the flashing wrench on since I did my own maintenance and just never got around to resetting. Now the wrench is gone. hmmm. Will have to try it when I get home.

I will check the radiator level too.

I had a thought this morning that maybe it is the evap system that I have not yet disconnected. I know the check engine light is on in my truck and my code reader says it is the evap or whatever trucks have.

Check the voltage at the battery when you rev the engine. If it is more than 15v at about 3-4k rpm, then your voltage regulator is out. Common cause of EML illumination on GTSs. Yours seems to fit this pattern, as it seems to go out when the revs drop?

Thanks for that. I will check that too. Now where did I put that dang multimeter?

mines in my garage

LOL found it (multimeter). I think DougL may have gotten it. First I checked th coolant level and it is fine. Before I tried a reset I found my multimeter and checked. At the battery at idle (around 1300 rpm) it showed 14V. At 4000rpm it showed 18-19V. Dang. Anyone have a spare voltage regulator?

I have a spare for the 500, do not know if it is the same. You would be welcome to it I suppose, but probably get one just as fast closer by.

Being as he lives pretty close to Scooter Trap. Well there's one to add to my list - whooda thunk it?

Glad you found it. It seemed obvious when I'd heard the same story so many times before.

Thanks for helping me pin it down fast DougL.

Appreciate the offer Rob and will buy yours if I can't find one closer. Now to dig into the manual to find the pesky little bugger.

Athens Scooter sells the voltage regulator - 58086R - but it costs $156.75 - not something you'd want to replace just on speculation alone.

Brilliant diagnosis by DougL "the fixer".

Any silver bullets for my startup check that disappears after a few minutes, typically a couple accel/cruise/decel/stop cycles?

He really is a rock star!

I agree. Athens has them and they ain't cheap. I found one here http://www.sip-scootershop.com/EN/Products/PI58086R/Voltage+regulator+PIAGGIO.aspx
 

Piaggio part number from Athens is 58086R-37 sip's number is PI5806R so I guess it is a match.

Then I found this http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Piaggio-MP3-250-400-500-Voltage-Regulator-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ200507325270QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_500wt_1182 on ebay and I am guessing it is not oem because it looks nothing like the oem and appears to have no cables.

I am curious lloyd123 about what you mean by speculation. I have done a search here and found numerous threads about this since I confirmed what DougL suspected that all have the same symptoms. Do you think it could be something else?

I think he's just suggesting "be sure" before you fork out for the reg/rec.

I don't know how to bump start the Fuoco, but when diagnosing my cold start problem and looking at the battery voltage, I thought it would be really useful to have a volt meter on the dash.

There's a thread about monitoring ambient temperatures, I'd like to see one start up with people monitoring their voltage

Most electrical parts cannot be returned so being double sure is prudent advice. They should be able to test it at the dealer eliminating the uncertainty.

Hmmm, probably a good thought. Wish my dealer was closer. I have to think though that if I am getting 18V at 4000rpm when it should be being regulated to no more that 14.5V then that would seem a good indicator that the VR must be tango uniform...wouldn't it?

I am no expert but here is how I see it. Alternator (generator) puts out voltage depending on rpms, the higher the rpms the higher the voltage. The regulator stops any voltage higher than 14.5 volts from getting to the battery for charging purposes.

I imagine that there is some device that monitors the battery condition to prevent overcharging (similar to a charge controller in a photo-voltaic set up) but even if this failed max voltage at the battery should still be no higher than 14.5 volts if the regulator is working right?

I agree with prudence. But this can be none other than the VR. The stator puts out 30v and this is stepped down. 14 at idle and 18 and 19 at revs will FRY your battery in double quick time. Bite the bullet and buy one. Quickly.

Classic symptoms. Back me up JimC!

Oh and apparently the part is made by Ducati. Cheaper from a Ducati dealer apparently. Do a search for ducati and voltage....

I'm no expert so I'm probably overly cautious. It sure sounds like the proper fix but - as I've leaned from troubleshooting electrical problems on cars - sometimes things aren't what they seem - there's always a chance it might be something else. That's probably why electrical parts are never returnable. It's too bad you couldn't replace with a "loaner" to test beforehand but at $35 on eBay it isn't that great a risk.

OH, another "spare part" to put in my garage! This was very informative for us all.

This is interesting. Found it while searching Ducati voltage regulators.
http://668tech.laverda-nz.org/regulator.html

That is interesting - have you located yours yet? I confess I haven't a clue where it is I would guess it is that heatsinked item on the right side of the bike behind the side cover over the waterpump. That would seem like a good area for it. I agree that it sounds cut-and-dried as to the VR being the culprit with those voltages. It as mentioned very important that you fix the issue or you may very well fry other stuff. Check the connections first a VR does need all the pieces hooked up properly to work - if there is no feedback it won't regulate. I have had a corroded connection cause high resistance and bad regulation on a auto - I would suspect this works much the same... If it's just a bad connection it would save you some serious cash.

nope went out for about a half hour and explored and have yet to find it. mostly focused on the right side. ran out of light so will have to wait till tomorrow.

if you look at the workshop manual under elct sys page 7 you can see it. it is in front of the handle bar area.

This doesn't need my input, you got it right from the start.

The last few years makes me think the average lifetime of a VR is about 30,000 miles - on almost any bike. They have a particularly harsh electronic environment - and some will fail early, some bang on the 30,000, some never.

But for almost all riders, it's 50:50 whether you'll need a new one while you own your steed.

Just a reality check.

John just got to thinking about this. A voltage regulator is a votlage regulator. Why not take one for say a harley and use it. You would just have to figure out the 5 pins and maybe make an adapter. but it would be alot cheaper than a piaggio part. I saw an accel one on ebay for a harley for around $15.

Dang it I spent what little light I had left looking in the wrong place. Will have another go tonight.

That may be possible. I will understand it better once I get it out to look at.

You're obviously looking at something different to me. It seems it is under the RHS side panel at the back, in front of the R rear lamp. On page 72 odd of the Workshop manual. That'll be fun to get to then.

I bet if you take the R rear light out you'll see it in there tucked out of sight...

This thread may also be of interest...

http://www.gtsownersclub.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3959

As a point of interest:

I found one of the three yellow wires going to the famous Piaggio 'brown connector,' on the wiring loom. One of the three 10/12GA wires was pinched between the rear quarter panel and frame and had worn through the plastic sheathing and worn through the yellow jacket, and worn through about 1/2 the copper. It was very close to where the seatback frame bolts to the main frame. I do not recall if I took a photo. I'll be able to check a little later.

Not sure if mine was a special feature from the factory or what, but maybe something to look at before dropping $ or £ on it....

I figgered that's around where it would be.

DougL good find I was looking at the wrong part.

Well isn't that handy. Thanks for finding the pic.

Look here

Body work on new Cherry Red 250ie

I posted up some photos on how to remove those back panels, hope it helps.

That needs to be put in the wiki.

Finally got it off. Wished I would have seen Zinfan's pics first. Here are some pics I took.