OP
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PX200E Disc
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Member
PX200E Disc
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UTC quote
Hi, I'm new here, but not new to scoots. I've always run pretty stock standard, but I'd like to improve the performance of my PX200E. At the outset, let me say that I am a tuning nube / novice. I'm not after a racer, just more power, more torque. I want to be able to beat 90% of the traffic from the lights. All cars are so damned fast now, even your little Korean numbers are screaming up your backside after you've cut through the traffic to get to the head of the lights. Back in 1978, I've no doubt a P200 would have beaten most road cars from the lights, but times have changed.

Perhaps this topic has been discussed before. I hope I'm not wasting anyone's time. I tried to look through old threads but I couldn't really see anything quite like what I was after. Other people seemed to be after performance/racing vespas.

I've spoken to a couple of experienced tuners (all of whom give you completely different advice!) -- and I am aware there are different views. Again, I hope by asking for even more advice, I'm not wasting people's time. It's hard to know what advice to follow.

Let me describe what I'm aiming to build:

If a part has an asterisk after it, I haven't got that part yet, and am open to different recommendations -- this is simply what I've been advised to go for.
These parts were recommended for a DAILY COMMUTER doing LONG MILES:

1. Malossi 210 cylinder kit + piston (yes, I'm going to get my crankcases ported)
2. MMW cylinder head
3. 60mm long crank*
4. SIP T5 Pro exhaust*
5. T5 4th gear

Now here's my question. What's the best carb for my requirements? Some people say Mikuni 28 / Dell'orto 28/; some recommend a HRS Vortex. I don't think I need a reed valve, correct?

I don't want the cheapest option; ditching the autolube doesn't bother me. But what will be the most reliable, most powerful (torquey), YET least GAS GUZZLING carb for my setup? The SI24/24 seems completely gutless to me, so please don't recommend that I stay with that.

I'm expecting people to jump on me and say:

1) Forget this plan, stay stock or
2) Get a GTS or a motobike or something along those lines.

Please, if you wish to say something like this, don't bother. I've heard it before. I'm committed to the PX, not for any rational reasons, but because I love it.

I'm just after some sound advice with a little bit of explanation.

Apologies if anyone is offended and thinks I'm wasting people's time. Trust me, I'm earnest about this project, and I will see it through.

Egidio
@jeremy_w avatar
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Molto Verboso
79 P200e, 81 100 Sport
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Location: Iowa
 
Molto Verboso
@jeremy_w avatar
79 P200e, 81 100 Sport
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1443
Location: Iowa
UTC quote
Daily Driver? Long Highway Commuter?

I'd go with a stock set up and a 24/24 carb.

All that shit you're listing is going to take that from a daily driver to a daily tweaker.
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Hooked
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Location: Ex-Pat Brit in San Diego
 
Hooked
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Re: Best Carb for a daily rider, long highway commuter
Egidio wrote:
I'm not after a racer, just more power, more torque.
Don't go for a Malossi kit then - get a Polini 208 - or if you are in the US, a HRS super stock or alpha kit - if you're in the UK (PX200?) Harry Barlow does a similar tune to stock top ends. Malossi's are high revving, but lacking in grunt at lower revs.

If you want to keep your oil injection, then a vortex is the only way to go.

With a Sito+ my Polini 208 has bucketfuls of torques from take off all the way through to about 60mph - with stock gearing - no need to change to a T5 4th as the engine has the power to make the jump from 3rd to 4th. With a prima expansionpipe, it loses a little on the low end, but revs up to about 8000rpm - 40mph in 2nd, 60 mph in 3rd.
@tonysmallframe avatar
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Hooked
90ss, et3
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Location: dc
 
Hooked
@tonysmallframe avatar
90ss, et3
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Location: dc
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Reed valves generally won't give you any power - but really increase your gas mileage at a given rpm/road speed. May be worth looking into if you're going to be putting some distances on this bike.
@jsharpphoto avatar
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Molto Verboso
1974 Vespa Sprint Veloce, 1963 VBB 180 Custom
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Molto Verboso
@jsharpphoto avatar
1974 Vespa Sprint Veloce, 1963 VBB 180 Custom
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1380
Location: Dallas, TX
UTC quote
If you've "heard it all before", then maybe it's the best advice?


you're like a fat guy who's come to the doctor's office, asking for advice on how to loose weight. You're giving him a list of dangerous weight loss drugs, and telling him to pick which is best for you. Just as long as he doesn't recommend "Diet and Exercise".... because you've heard it all before.
@gatekeep avatar
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Molto Verboso
1974 Rally USA 200 1980 P200e
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Location: Pioneer Valley Ma.
 
Molto Verboso
@gatekeep avatar
1974 Rally USA 200 1980 P200e
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Location: Pioneer Valley Ma.
UTC quote
Woah! Make sure you have a 24/24 in it now. Some p200's came into the country with 20/20 due to DOT. Buy a 24/24 with a Sito plus, upjet by2. You will be pleasantly surprised by the performance.
Also another thing I did was to drill a couple of holes in the heart shape in the air filter. There is a thread on how to do this somewhere on here. It's a easy mod. I'm not one to kit these already well tuned machines over the top. It seems like the more you tweak it the more your getting dirty.
@mike_z avatar
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Addicted
1958 Lambretta LI 190, 1968 Vespa Rally 180, 2005 Sym HD200
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Addicted
@mike_z avatar
1958 Lambretta LI 190, 1968 Vespa Rally 180, 2005 Sym HD200
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UTC quote
get a motorcycle
@xantufrog avatar
UTC

Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
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Location: Atlanta, GA
 
Moderibbit
@xantufrog avatar
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
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Posts: 8891
Location: Atlanta, GA
UTC quote
Re: Best Carb for a daily rider, long highway commuter
Egidio wrote:
I'm not after a racer, just more power, more torque. I want to be able to beat 90% of the traffic from the lights.
Two very contradictory statements. Without tuning a racer, your PX200 will not beat 90% of the traffic at lights. You said "don't suggest a GTS" but even a GTS only has the acceleration around that of a family sedan.

Without impressive tuning you're looking more at "kind of keeping up with the traffic" at lights.


That out of the way, +1 on Polini over Malossi for torque.

As Gatekeep pointed out, the Sito + with a stock engine adds a fair bit of torque anyway

A reed setup won't add power, but it will help with a snappier throttle response
@greasy125 avatar
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Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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Sergeant at Arms
@greasy125 avatar
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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here's how i'd go with something like this:

stock crank, cut back with an aftermarket rod
alpha kit or a pinasco kit (however with the pinasco i'd go to a longstroke)
middle weight flywheel
stock gearing
sito or a pep pipe from sip (that sort of expansion box)
and a 24/24 or a 26/26 stock style carb
run it on pre-mix

jet it fat and try and keep it together as long as you can.

best,
-greasy
OP
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PX200E Disc
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Member
PX200E Disc
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Thanks for all the replies. I suppose if I am to be cast in the role of the fat guy at the doctor's office (thanks JSharpPhoto!), I'll continue in my stupidity and go along with the advice (or something like it) of Greasy (the name goes well with my role! :-)). I've heard of people building tourers with modifications like this and they haven't been bedevilled with endless tweaking like some of you suggest. One fellow boasted to me his PX (built along the lines of something like what Greasy recommended -- only he had a dell'orto 28) was as reliable a stock bike. Believe what you like, I suppose.

Now as to the Sito plus -- does anyone know how this exhaust compares to the SIP T5 PRO Vespa P200 as a touring pipe? If you can believe the advertising, it seems to leave the Sito plus for dead.

http://www.sip-scootershop.com/EN/Products/SIP0800/Exhaust+SIP+T5+PRO+Vespa+P200.aspx
@n8murphy avatar
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Hooked
62 vbb ratbike, 64 vbb,56 bella r201
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Hooked
@n8murphy avatar
62 vbb ratbike, 64 vbb,56 bella r201
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Location: salem MA
UTC quote
if you want overall reliability and tractable speed i would go with the pinasco kit 60mm mazzy crank 28mm dell and a 226 pipe or some euro equivalent. then i would go with a cosa clutch and an efl gearbox with stock gearing. ive got the same setup with a stock p200e gearbox and clutch and i can drive on the highway all day long. ive got an extra fuel tank cause this setup makes the mpg pretty low. also its mildly tuned enough that it will perform in the low end and midrange and i can probably hit 80-85 but i can cruise all day at 65. I would go with a parmakit ignition if i had the money.
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Ossessionato
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Ossessionato
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Mike Z wrote:
get a motorcycle
+1 The best advice yet.
@hp avatar
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'60 VS5, '63 Li 150 Special, '07 PX125
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@hp avatar
'60 VS5, '63 Li 150 Special, '07 PX125
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UTC quote
Any carb over the 24 will be more gas guzzling, obviously.

Greasy's Pinasco recipe is similar to what was my favorite cruiser setup. Very good power and reliability with no more tweaking than a stock bike. You can still get good usable power from a 24, and the sensible torque spread keeps you sane around town because your bike is not always trying to rev itself into oblivion. It's a great "middle way" to go.

In my opinion, one more thing that makes a real difference on a high mileage bike is the very solid and secure mounting of the 24 carb and a stock-type pipe (Sito, PEP, SIP Road). Once you swap out to a rubber mounted carb manifold and a big ole pipe hanging off the side of your bike the vibration really does take a toll, and you need to do a lot more checking for rubber and metal fatigue.

If you are a tinkerer, then yeah, it is hella fun to always be checking your bike for stuff rattling loose, you will love being able to jet your midrange w/a big carb, and most likely you have that pipe off and on a couple times a month anyway, but if you just want to get on and ride for days, then it makes a difference. It's nice to be able to wail down the freeway and not be worried your carb is gonna pop off on the next bump, or your pipe is gonna bust a weld or bracket and start dragging on the ground.
@t5bitza69 avatar
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
T5s
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Location: The West Of Yorkshire ... Gods Country
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@t5bitza69 avatar
T5s
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UTC quote
fuzzbox
havnt read all the answers but ........ i wouldnt buy a t5 pipe for a p2
@hp avatar
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'60 VS5, '63 Li 150 Special, '07 PX125
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@hp avatar
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Re: fuzzbox
T5bitsa69 wrote:
havnt read all the answers but ........ i wouldnt buy a t5 pipe for a p2
Nah... he is talking about this exhaust (linked above) that SIP sells, basically a T5 box with a P2 header welded on.

Similar function to Sito+, PEP, and the newish (and significantly cheaper) SIP road exhausts.

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