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Somewhat new rider (~1,000 miles).

Looking for advice on cornering. I slow down way more than needed, take corners very carefully, and am still nervous.

I figured that over time I'd get practice and learn to corner better, however, unlike a car, there's no way to "test the limits" on the scooter. I don't want to drop the scooter/crash to learn when I've found the limit of how far I can lean over.

I took the MSF course, but frankly that did little to prepare me for handling twisty roads at the speed limit - you just need to take a single corner at 25-30 mph to pass the class.

Will I know that I'm pushing it... or will the scooter just slide out from under me at some point when I lose traction? I imagine that I am not even close to losing traction, but always assume the worst.

Any advice? How have you learned how far you can push it when it comes to cornering?
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The principles from the MSF do apply to ensuring safe cornering. For example, hit a curve toward the outside, then hug through the inside, then exit toward the outside to reduce the tightness of the turn.

It is good to slow down before an unfamiliar turn as you are, since you don't know how tight it becomes beyond your immediate view.

Remember to roll the throttle/accelerate through the turn. This will help ensure the scooter is planted and you don't tip while leaning as much as you need to. Speed = stability... don't be a fool racing through the turns, but to an extent the slower you are the more tenuous your handling will be.

Remember that good motorcycle/scooter tires have grips up the curve of the side, so they ARE meant to lean and will grip through a tilt.

Really, practice hard-leaning turns in a safe environment on YOUR vehicle - you'll get to know how low you can go without dumping. Most likely, if the road surface is good and you are steering in a controlled manner, you'll be able to scrape your centerstand with the lean without the wheels coming out below you.

Really, confidently leaning into the turn makes it SAFER than not leaning enough. If you keep that in mind, you'll probably trust yourself to lean more.
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UTC quote
After my cornering spill I was very hesitant on taking corners at a reasonable speed, but it got better. I was rather fixated on the entrance of the corner and never looked where I wanted to go. Look though the corner to where you want to end up and it might help you, in combination to what was said above.
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Get a copy of proficient motorcycling. Read it cover to cover. Then read it cover to cover again. Observe your riding relative to what you are reading.

The problem with finding the "limit" is that if you push right up to the limit of traction in a turn you will not have that traction you need to get out of the turn. More often the limit you are pushing against is control and that has a lot to do with knowledge, skill, and practice.
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I wondered the exact same thing as you. Here is what I did:

* I took the same twisty route for the past 1.5 years commuting to work.
* Over that time I drove cautiously and progressively faster through particular "safe" curves and leaned my bike more and more. A safe curve has no risk of oncoming traffic and soft ditch in the event I slide out.
* After less than a year I scraped my centertand. This scared me and then put a smile on my face.
* I scraped my centerstand several more times over the next several months.
* One day I leaned past the point of just scraping the centerstand and felt the road "push" the bike back up.
* So far I have went too far another dozen times and I always feel the road push back against the bike.
* I now have less fear that the wheels will lever-off the road during a severe lean and instead the road will "push" me back upright.

At some point I want to find a huge, empty parking lot and actually try to lever the wheel off the road. I will obviously wear full gear and do this cautiously.

A few more observations:

1) When you feel the centerstand scraping, roll on the gas to increase ground clearance. Rolling off the gas is the natural and universal instinct and the wrong one.
2) Hang-off
3) Read Proficient Motorcycling.
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Hard cornering is something that you learn gradually.

If you scrub off the right amount of speed *before* you get to the turn, there's probably no way to ride outside the limits of the tires themselves, assuming dry pavement and decent tires. They are a LOT stickier than you think they are.

But again, the key is entering the corner at the proper speed, and if in doubt, enter slower than you think you need to then roll heavier on the throttle as you pull through. It's better to have to hit the throttle more than to end up in the opposite lane of traffic.

You can also shift your butt on the seat to the side on the inside of the corner--this will allow you to keep the scoot a little more upright (and allow you to take it a bit faster).

Another thing--you are probably a lot farther away from dragging the centerstand than you would think, but do not ever, ever, ever look down to see how close you are, not matter how briefly you do it. The changing perception of speed from looking through the corner to the pavement going by at 50mph will cause the scoot to become unsettled and could lead to catastrophic circumstances. Unless you are a professional, looking down will invariably cause the scooter to upright.
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UTC quote
oopsclunkthud wrote:
Get a copy of proficient motorcycling. Read it cover to cover. Then read it cover to cover again. Observe your riding relative to what you are reading.

The problem with finding the "limit" is that if you push right up to the limit of traction in a turn you will not have that traction you need to get out of the turn. More often the limit you are pushing against is control and that has a lot to do with knowledge, skill, and practice.
+1
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if the bodywork hits the floor you have lent over too far
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Most of us were at this point...
and we all cope in slightly different ways. I have some random thoughts:
1. It seems that the rider-down-in-corner stories you will hear about are due to riders hitting slippery stuff, not from a normal tire/road interaction.
It is amazing how many people will simply ride over gravel, metal features, wet paint stripes without a care. Dummies.
2. Ride a bicycle a lot. they are really similar and will teach your brain how to steer a two-wheeled vehicle.
3. Overcome the fear of leaning. Practice practice pract...
4. As a novice, do all of your braking before you get into the corner.
5. Good Luck, have fun!
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And watch out for gravel in the corners Wha? emoticon This can also include not riding too close to the vehicle in front of you so you have time to look and react.

I was driving some twisties in the cage this weekend after a pretty good rainstorm....shocking how much gravel had washed out of driveways and was on the road. For the first time in weeks I was glad to be on 4 wheels instead of 2.
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covering is something that will improve over time and a constant learning cycle. I have been riding 20000 plus miles and still mess up and have a long way to go. the principles that helped me were learning to understand the role of counter steering and that whenever you lean you need more power to prevent over leaning. also begin to train yourself to act counter intuitively. if you enter a corner too fast you need to counter steer to get more lean and add more power. the gut reaction is to either touch the brakes (never do that) or to try straighten up.

just a few of the things that helped with my cornering.

dk'
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check out this video. it really helped me understand the ergonomics of riding on two wheels. plus the acting is atrociously amusing.
OP
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Thanks for the replies and suggestions!

I have Proficient Motorcycling, and have read through it once (some parts 2x).

Still... there's a difference between book knowledge and actual execution of it.

I found that entering turns slowly has helped.
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If there was a way to "know" the limit at all times, we'd all be millionaire road racers with Supermodel girlfriends and Villas in the South of France.

P.
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What I'm getting from this thread is the following:

Ease off a bit when you start scraping your center stand.


Good info. I assure you I am not even close to scraping my center stand.
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catathesis wrote:
What I'm getting from this thread is the following:

Ease off a bit when you start scraping your center stand.
and...Don't be going so damn fast in the corner that you feel that you need to lean that much to get steered through the corner!
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My biggest scare so far has been going into a sweeping right hand turn a little too hot with a semi in the oncoming lane.

It took every ounce of my willpower to keep from grabbing two fistfulls of brake.

I nearly shut my eyes.

Hopefully someday I'll be a bit better at this whole riding thing.

Facepalm emoticon
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catathesis wrote:
What I'm getting from this thread is the following:

Ease off a bit when you start scraping your center stand.
If you are talking about easing off the gas, NO! If your center stand touches down and you back out of the throttle, the scooter will want to settle on the suspension and this will cause the center stand to plant even harder. Either keep the gas steady or give it a little more. Giving it more gas will cause the scooter suspension to rise and give you just a bit more clearance. Another option (the better option IMO) is to slide you butt off the seat to the inside of the corner. This will shift the center of gravity and stand the scooter up a bit.

-Craig
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3 best tips from 30 years as a not-so-natural rider Lotsa training, lotsa experience and lotsa practice, and I still need to remind myself ...

#1 - Eyes UP and WIDE

Human eyes look down easily, but not so up: it can feel very hard to "lift" our eyes in a corner. This can prevent us seeing the exit - or worse, we can fix on a spot in the road and feel unable to see beyond it. YIKES! Solution - keep our heads up, eyes on the road well ahead, and glance down to instruments and road just ahead.

Keeping our eyes wide (or "widescreen") helps keep the whole corner(s) in view and helps avoid the dreaded target fixation.

#2 - Look THROUGH the corner

We go where we look - as true positively as it is negatively (i.e. target fixation) - if we look through to the exit even if we can't see it yet, our body / hands / bike will follow through ... almost like magic. Conversely, if we fix our vision on the apex or that horrible barrier or whatever .. guess where we go!

#3 - In WIDE out TIGHT

In WIDE is taught everywhere - and it works. I oughta know, it's my worst failing. Wide on entry means you can see through the corner better, are better positioned etc ... if we run in close, then we can't see easily (if at all) and tend to focus on that scary lump of an apex - most stories about "I just can't corner at any speed" turn out to be (oh dear - the puns) this problem. Starting the corner wide tends to solve many ills - simple.

MSF seems to teach in wide / out wide - but here (Australia) we teach riders to stay towards the inside of the corner on exit (hence "out TIGHT"). That way we're best placed (i.e. already "WIDE") for entry to the next bend. We also have more options for the unexpected - it's easier to widen a corner exit from a 'tight' position than to tighten it from a 'wide' one.

The other bits

Relax - especially wrists and elbows:just try riding with stiff arms and see our corners go to h*ll ...
Counter steer - push forward on the 'inside' handgrip to initiate a turn ...
etc
etc

For me, it's fix eyes and road position first, relax second, consciously counter-steer third .... and, of course, everyone is different ...
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If you're a noob then that's great man!
It means you don't have any pre-conceived ideas on how to do it better than anyone else, and are open to ideas that CAN and WILL improve your riding BEFORE you learn all our bad habits!

1. Always look up, chin high, and look to where you want to go, not where you've been. NEVER look at the road directly in front of you (that's what peripheral vision is for).

2. In wide, out tight. If you drift wide on the exit after the apex into oncoming traffic it gets messy. The road is NOT the place to practise racing lines. Go to a trackday, no-one will give you crap when they learn you're a nooby, they will mostly try to help and offer advice. It gets your confidence up in a safe environment.

3. Power on, the bike will straighten up and stand up. Power off, it will turn in and lean over.

4. Always look at least 100m or at least 6 cars ahead. It will allow you to anticipate any problems before they get down the traffic line to you.

5. Find a safe twisty road (with good vision all the way thru the corners), and have a fun ride each weekend. It will become familiar, and your confidence will improve along with your instinct.

Finally.......who cares if you're slow at corners? I haven't raced superbikes for 20years, but getting nervous on the road is good, it keeps you alive. For what it worth, yes I can ride........and yes, I always get beeped by drivers/riders who rekn I'm slow on the road.
They'll get over it, I already am!
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Midnight Rider wrote:
Look though the corner to where you want to end up and it might help you.
Excellent advice. Far and away the one thing new riders don't do is look ahead, particularly through corners.
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an interesting video, I will look for it...
although it will transfer mostly to scooters, there are some things in this track-day with crotch rockets video that won't be useful.

One that really stood out to me was his "dispelling the myth" that you can steer with your body, where he shows a guy just banging away at the secondary "bars", and jumping on the pegs, showing that those actions have little effect on a crotch rocket zipping down the road. On the other hand, many scooter riders know that you can flick your hips or push with your feet to steer, and it is a useful skill to have.

Still, it looks interesting and I will search it out.
cheesybreadsticks wrote:
check out this video. it really helped me understand the ergonomics of riding on two wheels. plus the acting is atrociously amusing.
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I learned the hard way about drifting on a wide, sweeping right turn this past weekend.

I came into the corner on a good? line but too fast, I let off the gas, I immediately found myself in the left lane -- across the double yellow on a winding coastal highway (read- hill on left, cliff on right soon followed by ocean). I leaned to my body to the right side (toward the asphalt) and stopped letting go of the gas (held it steady). I moved back into my lane before traffic came around the corner and I set myself up for much sharper left turn as we went around the point.

During my ride that day, I had little time to rethink it then but I know I have learned from my experience... DO NOT let off the gas while in a corner unless you want the bike to stand up and drift away from the corner. Apply more gas or lean your body more, or both.
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UTC quote
Learning curve
I too am a bit squeamish about corners, and I hate it when I pick a bad line and end up braking when I shouldn't. I also tend to look over at the cars in the next lane instead of around the corner. Bad habit, I know.

So I may take them slower than I should, but with time, and practice, I'll will improve if I just keep my MSF rules in mind.

1)Brake before the turn if you want to scrub off speed.
2)In wide out tight (outside, inside, outside)
3) LOOK through the turn, not at the other lane or the curb, or anything else.
4)Accelerate through the turn, when the wheel is under power, the bike is more stable when leaned. (Look, press, roll)

That said, I still hate decreasing radius turns (especially rightward ones).
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Re: an interesting video, I will look for it...
elvispa wrote:
On the other hand, many scooter riders know that you can flick your hips or push with your feet to steer, and it is a useful skill to have.
Sorry, bollocks. Every time you do any of those things you'll be changing the input to the bars, even if unconsciously. And it's ONLY that that will get a two-wheeler, whether bicycle or superbike to change direction - as Wilbur Wright surmised those many years ago!

It's physics - you can't beat facts.
⚠️ Last edited by jimc on UTC; edited 1 time
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No matter what you read, or see other people do, you must feel comfortable taking corners before taking any chances. If you don't, you will tense up and could have a problem. The main thing is to corner at your own speed and eventually, you will improve. It will come to you. Ride safe.
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Re: an interesting video, I will look for it...
jimc wrote:
elvispa wrote:
On the other hand, many scooter riders know that you can flick your hips or push with your feet to steer, and it is a useful skill to have.
Sorry, bollocks. Every time you do any of those things you'll be changing the input to the bars, even if unconsciously. And it's ONLY that that will get a two-wheeler, whether bicycle or superbike to change direction - as Wilbur Wright surmised those many years ago!

It's physics - you can't beat facts.
Jim knows what he's talking about.
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Well, I am not going to get into a pizzling contest, but...
no, he is not correct. Any number of a vs. b trials on the scoot will show you that by tilting the bike via a weight shift or foot pressure, you are riding on a different part of the tire and the scoot is turning, and if this does change the steering angle, it is not because of bar input. Try it, don't read me what you think the book says.
oopsclunkthud wrote:
jimc wrote:
elvispa wrote:
On the other hand, many scooter riders know that you can flick your hips or push with your feet to steer, and it is a useful skill to have.
Sorry, bollocks. Every time you do any of those things you'll be changing the input to the bars, even if unconsciously. And it's ONLY that that will get a two-wheeler, whether bicycle or superbike to change direction - as Wilbur Wright surmised those many years ago!

It's physics - you can't beat facts.
Jim knows what he's talking about.
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UTC quote
Re: Learning curve
BleuBelle wrote:
So I may take them slower than I should, but with time, and practice, I'll will improve if I just keep my MSF rules in mind.
Leia,

Let me be a boorish semanticist here and suggest something.

"Slower than I should" or "slower than I could"? "Should", to me (someone who looks forward to riding with you again) means fully within current capability and road conditions. "Could" connotes a future capability for which you train.

You've done the mountain roads of Naxos. "Should" speed on many of those curves is determined not by the physics of it, but the very common and hidden threats (from goat scat and cows to huge buses) that may arise in the turn without warning. My "should" on those roads is, and always will be, my swerve and stop speed, and I've had to apply that more than once.

That said, keep on working towards being able to ride at a higher "could" speed, as long as it never passes the "should" speed defined by physics and road conditions.

Looking forward to seeing you again.

Al
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Re: Learning curve
Aviator47 wrote:
That said, keep on working towards being able to ride at a higher "could" speed, as long as it never passes the "should" speed defined by physics and road conditions.
Looking forward to seeing you again.
Al
Thanks Al, you are quite right, in distinguishing 'could' between 'should'.
Oddly, I wasn't as worried as much (well, those drop offs were impressive) about the turns on Naxos and Paros, goat poop and all, because 1) there was much less traffic than what we get here in the states (at least during the time of year we were there) and 2) the curvature of the mountain roads really allows you to see the road far up ahead and see if there is traffic coming or if a switchback is coming (of which there were many). Most of the time I could see how the road far up ahead was going and plan my line accordingly.

Additionally, I am more assertive in turning on my LX150 than on my GTS300. Some of that has to do with the weight of the 300, and the touchier throttle, and the suspension, which alters the road feel. If I am riding behind someone like Bill or Genie who are very good at picking out lines for turns, I follow their line and do much better in the turn.

In any case, I liked that video link that someone posted, and went and ordered the DVD, because the graphics and the explanations are very understandable. I've read Proficient Motorcycling, but seeing it helps me to cement it in my brain. Guess I'm a visual learner in some things.
And yes, I intend to be back on the islands, especially if we can get some Santorini time in next.
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Kymco Downtown 300i the 'Dolphin Noise'
Joined: UTC
Posts: 14960
Location: London UK
UTC quote
Re: Well, I am not going to get into a pizzling contest, but
elvispa wrote:
no, he is not correct. Any number of a vs. b trials on the scoot will show you that by tilting the bike via a weight shift or foot pressure, you are riding on a different part of the tire and the scoot is turning, and if this does change the steering angle, it is not because of bar input. Try it, don't read me what you think the book says.
i'm assuming that you've never actually ridden with jim or oopsclunkthud, and have no idea of their riding abilities, or you'd realize how laughably ridiculous it is to urge either of them to 'try it' rather than 'telling me what you've read about it.'
@glasseye avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
GTS, LX, VSD, VSX, VNX, LD 125, Chucky, LI125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4181
Location: San Jose CA
 
Ossessionato
@glasseye avatar
GTS, LX, VSD, VSX, VNX, LD 125, Chucky, LI125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4181
Location: San Jose CA
UTC quote
Re: Well, I am not going to get into a pizzling contest, but
elvispa wrote:
no, he is not correct. Any number of a vs. b trials on the scoot will show you that by tilting the bike via a weight shift or foot pressure, you are riding on a different part of the tire and the scoot is turning, and if this does change the steering angle, it is not because of bar input. Try it, don't read me what you think the book says.
oopsclunkthud wrote:
jimc wrote:
elvispa wrote:
On the other hand, many scooter riders know that you can flick your hips or push with your feet to steer, and it is a useful skill to have.
Sorry, bollocks. Every time you do any of those things you'll be changing the input to the bars, even if unconsciously. And it's ONLY that that will get a two-wheeler, whether bicycle or superbike to change direction - as Wilbur Wright surmised those many years ago!

It's physics - you can't beat facts.
Jim knows what he's talking about.
You cannot change weight position on the scooter WITHOUT a change in steering position. It happens at the same time, whether your aware of it or not. The suitabilities of balance & steering are not conscious decisions you are making for the most part.

Being able to INFLUENCE your line with moving weight around on your bike is a valuable skill to have, but it is only a part of controlling the machine.

Lots to learn about here....thats why I love riding with really great riders....makes me better.

R

8)
@old_as_dirt avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 GTS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 22815
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@old_as_dirt avatar
2007 GTS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 22815
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
UTC quote
Re: Well, I am not going to get into a pizzling contest, but
elvispa wrote:
no, he is not correct. Any number of a vs. b trials on the scoot will show you that by tilting the bike via a weight shift or foot pressure, you are riding on a different part of the tire and the scoot is turning, and if this does change the steering angle, it is not because of bar input. Try it, don't read me what you think the book says.
oopsclunkthud wrote:
jimc wrote:
elvispa wrote:
On the other hand, many scooter riders know that you can flick your hips or push with your feet to steer, and it is a useful skill to have.
Sorry, bollocks. Every time you do any of those things you'll be changing the input to the bars, even if unconsciously. And it's ONLY that that will get a two-wheeler, whether bicycle or superbike to change direction - as Wilbur Wright surmised those many years ago!

It's physics - you can't beat facts.
Jim knows what he's talking about.
Time to jump in on this one.

I don't know where your coming from other than street talk but your WRONG on this one.

Jim and oopsclunkthud are on the money on this one.

You need to do some more research before making your statements as it has been studied at length in the m/c industry.

Dr harry hurt report, keith code, david hough, and numerous others have publish books and reports on how and what makes a m/c turn thru corners.

I do recommend you take a basic MSF class. Then if thats not enough for you then find a racing class taught at alot of tracks. There are alot of them avaiable by the names of Kevin schwantz, jason pridmore, california superbike school, ed bargy, ect,ect,ect. Shall I continue?
@jimc avatar
UTC

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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Posts: 44533
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
 
Moderaptor
@jimc avatar
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 44533
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
@cheesybreadsticks avatar
UTC

Hooked
Vespa LX150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 108
Location: Los Angeles
 
Hooked
@cheesybreadsticks avatar
Vespa LX150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 108
Location: Los Angeles
UTC quote
If you watch the entire movie he does go into how body position can allow the bike to make a turn tighter and give you more control while in the turn, but that isn't what actually causes the bike to begin turning.
@bleubelle avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2010 GTS 300 Super "Yukihime" 2013 BV350 "Silvar""
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Posts: 2494
Location: South SF Bay Area
 
Ossessionato
@bleubelle avatar
2010 GTS 300 Super "Yukihime" 2013 BV350 "Silvar""
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2494
Location: South SF Bay Area
UTC quote
The laws of physics don't lie:

A single-track vehicle such as a bicycle or a motorcycle is an inverted pendulum-it will fall over unless balanced.

The technique used by cyclists and motorcyclists to initiate turning in a given direction is to first apply a steering torque in the opposite direction. For example, if a turn to the left is desired, it is started by a turn of the handlebars to the right. Under this force the front wheel will rotate to turn right and the front tire will generate forces to the right. The machine as a whole steers to the right briefly and the rear tire also generates forces to the right. Because the forces are applied at ground level, this pulls the wheels "out from under" the motorcycle and to its right. The resulting roll angle to the left causes the tires to then generate camber thrust to the left providing the centripetal forces required to turn left. The geometry of the steering system provides the forces necessary for the front wheel to adopt an angle turned into the turn in a conventional manner. It is often boiled down to "push left to go left".

Once the turn is initiated by steering, then lean comes into play. A bike can negotiate a curve only when the combined center of mass of bike and rider leans toward the inside of the turn at an angle appropriate for the velocity and the radius of the turn.
Higher speeds and tighter turns require greater lean angles. If the mass is not first leaned into the turn, the inertia of the rider and bike will cause them to continue in a straight line as the tires track out from under them along the curve. The transition of riding in a straight line to negotiating a turn is a process of leaning the bike into the turn, and the only way to cause that lean (of the combined center of mass of bike and rider) is to move the support points in the opposite direction first. The rider can shift his weight of course, but any force used to move one way laterally pushes the bike laterally the opposite direction with equal force. That makes the bike lean (and can affect the steering), but it does not change the combined center of mass of bike and rider.
@mikem avatar
UTC

Member
Vespa GT60, ET4 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 37
Location: Concord, CA
 
Member
@mikem avatar
Vespa GT60, ET4 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 37
Location: Concord, CA
UTC quote
In addition to the great posts on this subject, I would like to add if you have the opportunity to take Keith and Dylan's track day course you would be surprised to see how much they and their instructors can show you in one day. They take their lessons in baby steps building on what you have learned. Keith has taught many racers through the years he know what he is talking about. Note they are not trying to turn you into a racer, although if you continue with their progressive program you might determine thats right for you, me 60+ might be a little late, although I have done three of their sessions and loved every one of them. You would need a motorcycle or rent one of theirs, it's not for beginners, and not cheap about $450.00 for a day with your bike and leathers a little more with theirs. Oh back to scooters, now we just need them, to add scooter school, what fun that would be on the track!
@windbreaker avatar
UTC

Banned
29,000 miles on my atlantic pastel green 2007 GTS 250
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4332
Location: Utah Valley
 
Banned
@windbreaker avatar
29,000 miles on my atlantic pastel green 2007 GTS 250
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4332
Location: Utah Valley
UTC quote
xantufrog wrote:
The principles from the MSF do apply to ensuring safe cornering. For example, hit a curve toward the outside, then hug through the inside, then exit toward the outside to reduce the tightness of the turn.
Just for the record, my MSF instructor recommended a different technique: stay between the middle and the outside of your lane through the whole turn to
a) get a better view of what is behind the (blind) curve and be better prepared to act on that
b) stay out of the inside where there might be more gravel or debris, which would not be a good thing.

This may, indeed, be the better technique for some riders and/or for some roads.
@jimc avatar
UTC

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 44533
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
 
Moderaptor
@jimc avatar
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 44533
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
UTC quote
The Blue Book ("Roadcraft", what the UK Police and all who do any advanced civilian riding training are taught by, under my belt BTW) is stay on the outer radius until you can see the vanishing point moving away (as mentioned above) - then back to dominating the centre line on any straight. This is not the RACING line of hitting the apex - do that on a road with oncoming motorcycle traffic doing the best ROAD line and you'll wipe each other out. And you shouldn't be thinking about the curve or corner you are in - you should have planned that already. You should be preparing a plan for the inevitable one ahead, and hopefully the one after that as well if in a series of bends where you've had a good sight-line at some point.

This way you can ride unknown roads with confidence and safely, but smoothly and swiftly as well.
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