Modern Vespa

I've been commuting on a 55 mph highway for the last year. The highway patrol pulled me over because he thought my LXV150 wasn't legal. He ended up not being totally sure and told me to check with my manufacturer.

So what are the minimum horsepower or CC requirements for highway riding in Washington state? Where can I find that info?

I was a little baffled, since my scooter goes 65 mph, I even take it on main highways when I need to with no problems.

The officer said," Well, it looked a lot smaller when you passed me." I'm not totally sure he knew what he was talking about, but he suggested a minimum of 27 HP, much higher than my scooters 11.6 HP output.

Thanks.

While it may be legal,I would never do it.

Here in illinois, the law says that anything with a 150cc or greater is a class M vehicle. (motorcycle) And I believe those can be ridden on a highway of 55mph, but no greater.

A 150cc scooter is too small and light for highway traffic.

I think that was the cops concern.

Here are some photos of my BV 500 which is also the same as a BV 250. You see the size is just as large if not bigger than a 750cc motorcycle. Much more substantial for highway riding.

You really have officers out there who don't know what they are talking about. If he was going to pull you over you would think he at least had some idea.

Most states, in fact I believe every state, has a 125 or 150cc limit on what is large enough to ride on the highway. I'm pretty sure none of the states go by HP figures anymore, only engine displacement.

150cc is the norm but there are states like Michigan that allow 125cc to hit the highway.


My 300 does 87 mph and only makes 23hp so according to the data the officer with too much time on his hands, told you my bike wouldn't even be legal on that road.

If you aren't sure call a reputable dealer in your area and ask.

Very much a matter of opinion.

Depends a lot on the highway, the scooter, and the rider.

You are correct.

But I would not do it here! Not on the tollways. Maybe Lake Shore Drive and other roads, but the tollways... I shudder to think!

Sometimes my BV 500 gets tossed around like a leaf when a truck goes by or if there are heavy winds. Can't imagine being on my old 150 during those times.

I would say the best requirement for riding a 150cc on a highway is BALLz!

I do appreciate the responses! I think I will call the vespa dealer (even though they are across the river Oregon) Then maybe the DMV. I wish it were easier to find the law on the government sites...

At any rate I may have just found the excuse I needed to buy a bigger, better Vespa.

On my way home from Michigan last night about 7:30, I passed (you can't make this up) a guy hauling ass on a 150 chinese scoot, no helmet, sandals, iPod ear buds (cannot confirm if he was listening to music), t-shirt, shorts, etc. . . . on the EISENHOWER EXPRESSWAY. And not just any part of the Eisenhower, mind you . . . the part from downtown to Western that is grooved and has exposed manhole covers due to construction. I really wish I could have taken a picture.

He was balding on top . . . hope he was wearing sunscreen, otherwise it would have been dangerous.

Check out this:

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.425

http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/enforce/speedlaws501/toc/waspeed.pdf

I couldn't find anything limiting access based upon engine size or horsepower. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Call the DMV, and if they give you an answer, ask for the citation.

Not sure I'd consider an Oregon dealer the final word on WA law.

Al

Vehicular laws are state-by-state.

In general 150cc is highway legal, but check with your own state's DMV to be sure.

Is your bike registered as a Motorcycle? Your registration slip should say.

Do you have an operator's license with a motorcycle endorsement?

If so, odds are you can operate your bike without restrictions.

Again, the best authority is your state's DMV.

PS--Traffic officer should know these things. Shame on him/her.

P.

I did I-5 (65-70 MPH limit) on my 150 many many times & was never pulled over for it. That Johnny Law needs to pull his head out. He must have been bored that day.

here in ct, i talked to a cop, if it is able to maintain 55mph it is highway legal on any highway. i too got pulled over and went in surch of the answer, but i found no laws against it but the law about vehicals that can't maintain 55mph are not allowed on the highway. but my 150cc i take on the highway all the time, it easly goes 75mph gps, all day long.
so io would not let this cop shake you, he probally is not going to pull you over again becouse he does not know the stature it is breaking. have fun, but he just wants you to be safe so you can't be mad.

As a LEO, his duty is to protect the public. He saw you on what he perceived to be an unsafe vehicle for conditions and pulled you over, i.e. protecting you.

Did he give you a ticket? I'm assuming no, since you didn't mention it, and did mention that the LEO was unclear on the rules as applied to your Vespa.

In my mind, no harm, no foul. He was doing his job. At the very least, you'll be prepared the next time this happens.

When you find the citation in the WA State Vehicular code, you may want to print that section of the book and have it with you in case this happens again. The DMV may print it for you if you ask real nice.

This way, if you get pulled over in the future, you can prove to the officer that you are legal.

I looked but did not find it.

In CA, the minimum for freeway access is 150cc. I ride my 200 on the freeway all the time, and have occasionally done so on my kitted P125. A CHP officer once told me that if you can maintain 45mph, he won't look twice. Slower than that and he'd write you up for too slow for conditions.

I've been pulled over doing 90 km/hr with a GTS 250 and told I was illegal,
My guess is that they look at the tires and not the speed.

After a lot of letter writing to the "President of Ontario"and phone calls,
I was told that I was perfectly legal and to ignore the O.P.P.


Yet an Austin Mini had 10" tires and it was allowed on the highway,
Don't figure, Guess it was because it was a cage.

Write or call the local authorities,
You can bet they have people riding scooters.

Forgot to mention...I've been up to 130 km/hr on a Derbi 150 Blvd,
Never got pulled over on that scooter.

I'm really curious how you can do this all day long... please share! My ET4 can do 65mph indicated all day long but I think the real MPH is closer to 60 in my case. I don't feel like there's a speed limiter like I do with my GTS... it actually kind of shudders when I hit about 83mph indicated but my ET4 doesn't do any of that... it just gets stuck there. I'd love to be able to get it up to 65mph for quick jaunts on the highway... by quick I mean 3-5 exits on freeways I'm extremely familiar with.

i added dr.pully rollars, it runs fast becouse i weigh in at 130lbs and a duck down at the high speeds. it has hit 80mph and i did not hit the rev limmitor. one thing i have noticed and others aswell is that when i get up on the highway it takes a few miles before in my opinion the motor gets hot enough to run faster. at first it will go 70 indicated and after a few miles it will easly hit 80 indicated and faster. i beleve it is a heat thing. try it. use you scoot on the highway for a few miles and see if you experience this aswell.

Can I take a deep breath now?

Having dated a state trooper for some time and having a father who is a LEO they would NEVER pull someone over for something unless they knew they were breaking the law. All that officer had to do was call it in to get the facts before he wasted the guys time. They have a ton of resources at their disposal to find these things out. I would die before I pulled someone over and I didn't know the law myself. That is pathetic and just dumb.

No harm no foul? No reason to pull him over in the first place. You don't just pull people over to talk to them.

They are better LEOs than you often find in VT, then. The state troopers there are notorious for pulling people over for "having no tail light" or "license plate obscured" or something to, in reality, just take a gander at the driver and the back seat. Who knows, they might get lucky and smell booze or find that a seatbelt isn't on, right? Never mind that the lights are all in fact fine and you pulled them over under completely false pretenses.

You are completely correct. That's why I'd be pissed. The officer in this case though clearly admitted he didn't know the law and had no reason to pull him over. What amazes me is the officer still didn't know the law before he let him go! He should have found out before or during the stop.

Instead of monkeying around with dealers or the DMV, why not go straight to the source?

Here is a link to the Washington Code
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/

You may find Title 46 - Motor Vehicles, to be the most useful.

And if I were you, I'd pay particular attention to the definition of Motorcycle in 46.04, as well as the Rules of the Road in 46.61, with special attention to 46.61.608 and those that follow.

That might give you a place to start, anyway, while you are waiting to get a live person to answer the phone at the DMV!

I hate real, meaningful, actionable advice.

Lame

Yeah, don't worry. I'll be sending the OP a bill!

Bummer, no sidesaddle :(

Looks to me like there is no restriction at all unless there are minimum speed signs.

Of course, there is no way to tell what the officer was thinking or really concerned about. We can only speculate.

If he was polite and sincere, and really concerned about your safety and well being, more power to him. I could see, from a generous viewpoint, where he could think that there might actually be a legal restriction to support his concern. I would personally prefer that line of thought over one where he might have simply said to himself, "It's your funeral."

I can legally ride my PX 150 on Italy's AutoStrada. The signs at the on-ramps say so. No way in hell would I take that as a "pass" to do so. Got on once by mistake, and never again. What's "allowed" and what's "prudent" are often two very different things.

I lived for quite a while in WA. I doubt if every LEO has or could memorize the W.A.C.s or has significant exposure to smaller PTWs. Sounds like he was reasonable, even if not up to date.

The previous posters have pretty much covered it for you. However, I was bored and did a little reading myself.
This link -- http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46 -- is a good starting point for this question. It's fun to discover some of the rules that you were never taught.

Anyway, from my reading for Washington, it does seem that the only restriction against riding on a highway goes to mopeds, motor-assisted bicycles, etc. Beyond that, it seems they leave it to you to know the minimum speed for a particular road/highway. If you can safely maintain that speed, you're good to go.

There is no national rule for riding on Interstates. Each state is free to write its own rules. In Florida, 150cc is the min. So if you have a 150 cc or greater, and can maintain speed, you can ride. Some states allow bicycles and pedestrians (on the shoulders) because the Interstate is the only reasonable and practical means to get from one town to the next.

Your license, registration, and insurance probably consider your LX a motorcycle. If so, that, plus the above, makes me think you're okay. You'll have to be the judge for safety.

A 125cc air cooled motorcycle will go fast enough to go on a highway, but a better question is, Should it? The answer is (in my opinion) NO. It was not designed for this type of use. Using anything at it max potential (or close to it) for extended periods of time will drastically shorten its life.

The safe highway size depends on many factors. Water cooled motors are more powerful and most will fair highway conditions better. A 400cc air cooled motorcycle will do about 85mph, flat-out. This bike, being consistently on the freeway at 70mph-plus speeds, it will have a short life. A 250cc high performance water cooled motorcycle will share the same fate. Why try to shove a square peg in a round hole. The best possible scenario, is to use equipment for its intended purpose. Buy equipment that will easily do what you need it to, and it will live longer life and serve you better.

Cops look for two things in this venue:
1) Is the motorcycle beefy and power looking enough to where it looks like it belongs on that highway?
2) Is the motorcycle's motor struggling to maintain highway speeds?
If yours passes both of these test, then you have no worries.
If it doesn't, the cop is doing you, your motorcycle, and the surrounding traffic a favor by getting you off that highway.

No. []

And, to echo some others, kudos to the LEO that was concerned enough about your safety to check in with you - without secure grounds to issue a citation. So the LEO spent non-citation time to make sure you were safe and/or up to operating your vehicle.
I am a big supporter of LEO respectfully keeping citizens safe.

And I've been pulled over by a LEO that had never seen a highway-capable scooter and wanted to see it. Full gear and a vanity license plate made him think I was legit at 65 mph on I-66. I didn't mind. Put it up on the center stand, doffed my helmet and waited with a smile for him to approach. No sense in making either of us nervous!

If you don't think your 150cc Vespa can go on the freeway, you're right.

If you know better... you're right too.

Silver Streak had it exactly correct: it's a matter of rider skill (and comfort level), the bike, and conditions.

Others know WA law and have provided that info here.

Here in California, the cutoff is 150cc exactly (that and above defines a "motorcycle" which is freeway legal, below that it's a "motor driven cycle" or perhaps a moped or motorized bicycle if certain criteria are met). All "150" Vespas are at least 150cc, and thus freeway legal. Many other "150" scooters are actually 149cc, thus not actually freeway legal.

Just this weekend I did a 22 mile freeway run on my mostly-stock* carbureted LX 150S, averaging about 57 MPH (actual; 60-65 on the speedometer) over the route. Had a little bit of oil blow-by (evidenced by oil drips from the airbox drain) but otherwise without incident. Was passed by two CHP patrol cars that didn't seem to care.

In fairness, a LX-series bike is not my first choice for freeway riding; there are bikes much better suited to that. But they can do it, and while they require a bit more rider effort and attention than other bikes might, they're nowhere near unstable at those speeds.

* The bike has a low windscreen and a tail-bag; together they reduce drag enough to enable a 62MPH top speed at approximately sea level, level ground, no wind, rider sitting normally. The engine and transmission are completely stock.

Interesting thread. Over this side of the pond we have a restriction on motorcycles or scooters of a minimum engine size of 125cc if you want to take it on one of our motorways (highways). Most 125's over here can manage 70mph so it's fine. Many folk use them for motorway travel over big distances. Not sure I'd want to do that over in the states from what I'm hearing.

The restriction varies from country to country in Europe. In Italy, 150cc is the minimum for the Autostrada, for example.

Not true

Florida does not regulate by cc's but by speed and BHP
I see the 5 BHP min signs on entrance ramps all the time.

Interstate highways cannot be used by human-powered vehicles or vehicles under 5 bhp (which means most 50cc scooters), and you must be able to maintain at least 40 MPH on an interstate to avoid a moving violation.

The minimum speed limit on all highways that comprise a part of the National System of Interstate and Defense Highways and have not fewer than four lanes is 40 miles per hour, except that when the posted speed limit is 70 miles per hour, the minimum speed limit is 50 miles per hour.

The best thing...don't guess...don't trust an internet forum where people "think" or "believe" what the law is, don't ask the dealer...check the law for your state! They are readily available

I live in Florida, most of the freeways have a 70mph speed limit. The highways run 55 to 65mph limits. Most roads are in very good shape. The freeways and toll roads have grooves cut into the concrete for rain drainage. This makes them dangerous for small and narrow tires. The traffic is commonly very dense. I've owned many scooters and motorcycles from 50cc to 1832cc. My Honda 90 and 100 were good for around town. My Honda 250 was not a good freeway bike but did OK on most highways. My Kawasaki KZ400 and Yamaha DT360 did OK on both, but ran hot on long distances at speeds over 65mph. My Kawasaki H2 750 2 stroke liked 80+ mph. The only thing it did well is accelerate in a straight line. My Kawasaki KZ900 and Honda Valkyrie work well everywhere. The freeway is a pleasure to drive on with ether bike. The gas mileage is comparatively poor, 50mpg for the Kawasaki KZ900 and 35mpg for the Honda Valkyrie.

Most of the scooters and smaller motorcycles are all about trying to shove a square peg in a round hole for the sake of good gas mileage. This is a compromise that I would only choose as a matter of need. I do understand that many riders do it as a game, and a game like this can be a lot of fun. But I have a family that depends on my income, and the larger bikes are a lot safer and harder to steal.

According to the Hertford police department as long as it is registered and you wear a helmet there are no restrictions on riding a motorcycle on highways [including Interstates].

That being said: 1. Some on-ramp have a sign that forbid mopeds ["Moped" means (GS 105-164.3) a vehicle that has two or three wheels no external shifting device, and a motor that does not exceed 50 cubic centimeters piston displacement and cannot propel the vehicle at a speed greater than 30 miles per hour on a level surface.]

and 2. common sense prevails.

Note that most North Carolina roads are wide, smooth and empty. Two-wheel heaven. The DOT seems to maintain them very well.

Not true, the minimum cut-off point is 50cc, not 125cc in the UK.

Now this is darned good advice!!! If you want to know, find out.

This thread started over 4 years ago asking about Washington State, and a cop that was uneasy with rider on a scooter. AFAIK, the States can have no limit, a 5 bhp limit, or a 150cc limit. Washinfton has a 5 bhp limit.

It was over 2 years ago that when I rented an LX150 to see if it was acceptable on the freeways. The people at EagleRiders thought you needed at least 250cc to do on the freeways. "No, VC-405 says 150cc or more, and the Vespa is 150.46cc." I rode the freeways, 20 miles, and found that it was no only enough, it could actually pass some of the slower vehicles.

Which gets us into Comfortable. Most people are un-comfortable driving/riding being the slowest vehicle on the road, most people want to be able to do 10-20 mph faster than the speed limits.

I started driving in '62 with a '53 dodge, the "Wounded Warthog" which had trouble doing 50 mph (one cylinder didn't ran, bad valves.) My first motorcycle was a Honda Sport 50, in '67 I had a 100cc 2-stroke twin that could do 65 mph on the freeway. My slowest vehicle was a Fiat 238 van/motorhome -- about 3,500 pounds and 46 bhp that could only do 57 mph indicated. For ME, the Vespa LX150 is faster than I expected, faster than I require to be safe on the freeways.