Modern Vespa

What is a good oil to use for the MP3?

I heard not to use motorcycle oil that's for a wet clutch but diesel oil would make a good oil for this engine. Is this true?

What oil brands in Canada and USA do you recommend (from walmart, pep boys, etc)?

rotella T6 meets the spec of JASO MA which is required by piaggio.

I'm a big Castrol fan - I'm pretty sure their R4 meets the standard. As stated make sure it meets the JASO spec

Just checked - I use their RS R4
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9021703&contentId=7040544

5W-40 synthetic for diesel engines. With moly! Meets all the specs and more and is cheaper.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_Turbo_Diesel_Truck_5W-40.aspx?WT.srch=1

Castrol 5-40 synthetic is what my dealer uses and it is available at many motorcycle shops.

Seems to me that pretty much anything that's 5w40 and 4T and a 'named' brand seems fine?

Absolutely not.

I would say yes as long as it is synthetic and meets the minimum gasolene spec.

That JASO MA spec is the important one. It is the motorcycle spec and further states that NO friction modifiers are used. Motorcycle oils are formulated for motorcycles. I personally wouldn't even consider putting an automotive oil in any bike - even an old flathead Harley... well maybe one of those
(the old flatheads had an oil system that essentially spit it out - so it was one-shot use on the oil).

I'm using Wal-Mart 10W-40 auto dino oil and have used this kind of oil all my bike riding life(47 yrs.). Will let you know if I ever regret it.

I have a `91 VX800 Suzuki that's had this kind of oil in it since new and at 84K miles have had NO motor/clutch/tranny issues whatsoever. But I do change my oil more often than recommended.

5W-30 and 10W-30 are the oils that are supposesd to be too slippery for wet clutches like 2 of my bikes have. I only use these viscosities in my car & truck.

I use no synthetic oils in anything.

Viscosity (the weight) has nothing to do with how "slippery" it is. The specs are what tells you if there are friction modifiers in the oil which is why it's important to know what specs are called for by your vehicle. Hey - if you wanna use cheapo oil it's your bike. But - I would consider it a disservice to suggest that there is no difference in oil to a person that asked. Perhaps your riding style simply hasn't made the differences necessary - but there IS a difference I assure you. The price difference and quantity isn't something that would make me quibble or risk trashing my bike for.

To each there own, Piaggio doesn't require synthetic for no reason.

If the front "star label", states energy effient, or energy saving, it is no good. Castrol 5w/40 is what I use, but check the star, think it must be rated DL for diesels. (cannot remember the letter code off hand)

Piaggio doesn't require syn. oil, they recommend it. SAE 5W-40 API SL. JASO MA is comparable to our SAE recommendations in Japan. 5W is only needed if you operate your vehicle in 20 below temps. I don't do that, do you ? Piaggio recommends Agip City Hi Tec 4T oil, made for 4 stroke engines. What I use is made for 4 stroke engines but is also OK for turbochargers. I don't see my motor oil getting as hot as a turbocharger can make it.


I also have a `04 air cooled MC that says to use 5W-40 oil, It now has 37K miles and I use 10W-40 dino oil in it just like the MP3 with no worries so far.

Bubba, viscosity matters this time because it's only in the thinner auto oils that the modifiers are used. I don't buy cheaper oils to trash my vehicles either. Just what's really needed.

Yes, I do ride regularly in 20° in the winter, have ridden down to 0°

Use whatever oil you want as I do. I'm just saying everybody doesn't have to use certain synthetic 5W-40 oils, IMHO.

I was just pointing out that "slippery" was incorrectly used in context with viscosity - they are not the same. Turbocharged engines use an oil intercooler if they are designed for oil cooling - the temp will not exceed the oil ratings just because the engine has a turbo. 5W spec has little to do with temperature. The multi weight oils are blended to provide engine protection during that all important start up when cold - i.e. not at operating temperature. The low viscosity ensures that the oil will not shear and leave metal unprotected. Finally: So JASO is loosely an equivalent to SAE in that they are an automotive standards organization but they have different and unique specs to fine tune requirements. If SAE specs did the job I can assure you there would be far fewer letters on your oil...

No but indeed the OP (who is no doubt amused at the interchange) asked for a recommendation. I *highly* recommend synthetic oils for many reasons - all good ones.

"5W spec has little to do with temperature". I totally disagree. The thickness(flow rate) of most oils is directly proportional to the ambient temp. of the oil before startup. Thinner weight oils are for colder temps. mainly. Multi weight oils automatically adjust the flow rate according to the temp. they are active in. Where I live/ride, 10W oil is more than enough to handle high 20sF in the coldest time of the year here. I'm more concerned with the high ambient temps than the low temps. Besides, a water cooled motor has far less high temps to deal with.

1/2 my rigs are air cooled motors. That's why I run 10W/40 in the winter and 20W/50 in the summer(triple digits) for them.


A manufacturer recommended oil viscosity has to do with all possible conditions they can think of where a customer might be using their vehicle. Whereas I'm only concerned with the temps. I will ever be in when riding. Therefore I reject all the absolutes the factory recommends for.

My Italian `81 MC's factory recommended dino 10W-50 oil not even available then in the USA when the bike was new. Accordingly I used 10W-40 in the winter and 20W-50 in the summer. That was over 100K miles ago. I know an owner that has ridden his same motor for over 300K miles now the same way as me.

Once upon a time they even referred to it as "multi - season" oil. Truth is that's what prompted development of the VII's used in multi-weight oils. But the reason they are specified by automakers nowadays is for the reason I stated. Hells bells, I ran straight 30W in all my cars and my street performance vehicles up to 50W. All of them started just dandy all the way down to 10 degrees or so. In very cold climates they can't depend on the even 5W to allow them to crank - ask any ND resident and they'll tell you a block heater is standard equipment - only way they'll start in winter. Stores in ND have hitching posts rails in front with plugs so customers can plug in while they shop to keep the block warm! So - weight isn't really a factor anymore with starting, but rather for the reasons I stated.
But we're splitting nits here - multiweight is a Good Thang. Synthetic is a Good Thang (just not strictly necessary). JASO MA is a Specified Thang and verily shall void warranties if not adhered to.

Good God this is same old same old - bloody olive oil is better than no oil at all...

Get a grip on reality folks!

first pressing preferable.

Put me down for virgin.

Extra Virgin.

...........and the reason there are no friction modifiers is (I believe) to reduce the possibility of clutch slippage. I think mjm50cal is right in this instance.



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The statement was made that the JASO spec was essentially irrelevant and any reasonable "dino oil" could be used. While it was danced around, the fact that the MP3 should use an oil that is NOT intended for wet clutch use was not disputed. My contention was that is one of the things spelled out by the JASO spec.
So much info about oil. a lot of "old timers" have heard that you should not mix oil types way from back when. Reason being there were two bases for petroleum - fossil and paraffin. Texas oil for example is usually fossil and Pennsylvania is paraffin based. Back in the bad old days you flip flopped on your oil brand you could be shellacking your engine. Thus the adage that continues to some degree today of sticking by your brand.

There seems to be some real knowledge of oil in this discussion so I'd like to pose a question if I may. I run the recommended 5w-40 in my Piaggio. I've used a few different brands with no problems so far. Right now I have Repsol in there. My question is I want to start using synthetic in my Honda Reflex but can't find an appropriate oil. The service manual says 10w-30 with a API classification of SG or higher or JASO T 903 standard of MA. It also says you can use 10w-40. My questions is this: Can I use the Repsol 5W-40? I have several liters of it that I bought on sale. The scooter is ridden in Ohio at temperatures between maybe 35- 95 degrees. I'm a fair-weather rider so it's usually between 50-95 degrees.

Bob

Any twist-n-go scooter should be able to use the same oil as your Piaggio. Specs just say whether oil can or should be used in a wet clutch system.

Thanks for the reply. I was a little leery using the 5w as opposed to the 10w. I also see that Walmart sells Rotella 5w-40 by the gallon or something near that size. I was in there the other day looking for Mobil 1 10w-40 but I think Mobil's marketing dept. has taken over. There are more "descriptors" on their bottles than any other brand which confused the hell out of me and sent me to the door...

I have switched to the Rotella T-6 full synthetic 5-40 as it meets the JASO MA spec.

the difference between the lower 5w and the 10w is the 5w is lighter for quicker warm up temps and should be fine for you in Ohio, especially when the temps are getting cooler now in the AM.

Your honda manual should give you a range of oil weights based on outside temps.

The Honda manual shows an arrow going from about 15f-110f with "10w-30 10w-40" within the arrow. Kind of confusing. It doesn't specify when to switch up to 10w-40. The text does say use 10w-30 or other viscosities shown in the chart (10w-40) when the average temperature in your riding area is within the indicated range.

I'm thinking of using the Repsol in the Piaggio and buying the Rotella T-6 for the Honda. I've read a bunch of good reports about the Rotella. I've used a few different brands in the Piaggio. That thing is bullet-proof and would probably run fine with plain water in place of the oil!! The Honda is new to me so I'm being extra careful.

Bob

I wholly recommend any of these 3 oils:

Rotella T-6 full synthetic 5-40

Agip 5W-40 Synthetic

Mobil 1 5W-40 synthetic for diesel engines. With moly

All great proven oils....

don't use Castor oil as this will make you crap and wouldn't be good for the scoot either.

really anything that meets the JASO-MA spec is fine.

Picked up a gallon of the Rotella T-6 5w-40 today. I'm set for the rest of this year and all of next. Now I need to find a Nelson Rigg dust cover in XL for the Reflex and I'm done.

Until the next great scooter buy comes along....

Bob

Any opinions about Liqui Moly 5w-40 ?

and how often do you change the oil filter? In every oil change or every 10K km?

Not sure about the Liqui Moly 5w-40.

Oil filter gets changed every oil change. You have to remember, it gets clogged it bypasses the filter and oil doesn't get filtered.

just got a mp3 500
So all the oil that people recommended and commented on are from the 08 era, its been years what conclusion has any one come to. ?

Rotella T6, cant find the right requirements for it on the web.

hasn't changed, still using T-6 today, I buy it all the time. You can find it at walmart, autozone, advanced, and many other places.