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Hope this is not a re-post... I did search.

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Not pleasant. And in a t-shirt, shorts and jalopies, too. Ouch. Facepalm emoticon
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passing in the right lane - asshole!
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Mosaicmama803 wrote:
passing in the right lane - asshole!
I think it's Hong Kong. Don't they drive on the wrong side of the road anyway?
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Shows that you need to do an over the shoulder lifesaver before you pull out, not when you here the horn of the oncoming car, after you do so. He was lucky not to have major road rash and to be able to get up and walk away. The car driver must have been half asleep and distracted too, not to have pre-empted that. Too busy fiddling with his video camera no doubt.
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Mosaicmama803 wrote:
passing in the right lane - asshole!
If people would leave the left lanes for passing only instead of cruising in them oblivious then people wouldn't have to use the right lane.

I've gone up and down I-95 and can almost 99% of the time shorten my trip by using the right lane - because the center and left are stuffed full of people.

Also it looks as though that scooterist came into the right lane and BRAKED when he got there - the taillight clearly comes on so not sure what in the hell he was trying to do. It was definitely the scooterists fault though.
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Typewritist wrote:
It was definitely the scooterists fault though.
Not so sure that that's how it would go over here with that evidence. It looks like the traffic does drive on the left, therefore the car WAS in the passing lane, ie lane three. It would either go 50/50 in the UK or if the driver of the car was lucky 70/30 fault of the scooter rider.
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They both made mistakes.

The guy in the car was driving far too quickly and the guy on the scooter didn't bother to do a shoulder check until he had already changed lanes.

What amazes me is the complete lack of concern for the guy on the scooter by the car driver as well as all the other traffic that just kept right on going! What The? emoticon
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DougL wrote:
therefore the car WAS in the passing lane, ie lane three.
Ah I was looking at it from the US perspective.

Still - improper lane change into the path of an oncoming vehicle - no turn signal, no hand signal, didn't even look over his shoulder before committing to the change and still had on his brakes when he came over into the path of the car.

If that is the passing lane he should have been speeding up, not braking.
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Regardless of legal fault, scooterist was the catalyst the accident.
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The scooter rider is also lucky he wasn't dumped into the adjacent lane in front of oncoming traffic. Poor riding and a stark reminder of the importance of rear mirror and shoulder checks.

That said, the car driver doesn't read the developing situation particularly well and appears to hit the horn before the brakes. Aggressive. I reckon he can be on those brakes a second or two sooner. Then again, if he wasn't hammering it quite so much, he wouldn't have needed to be. Putting myself behind the wheel in that situation, I'd like to think that I'm anticipating the scooter pulling out by the 31 second mark...

Best,

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⚠️ Last edited by MarkTheBlue on UTC; edited 4 times
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It almost looks like the scooterist was intentionally trying to get hit. No headturn before the lane change and then hits the brakes when he hears the horn? I know it was probably a panic reaction but damn, what a bad time to confuse the brake with the throttle.
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Just for info, the sign reads KEEP LEFT and it is in Hong Kong, where they drive on the left (like a lot of countries believe it or not).

http://www.brianlucas.ca/roadside/
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TrafficJammer wrote:
They both made mistakes.

The guy in the car was driving far too quickly and the guy on the scooter didn't bother to do a shoulder check until he had already changed lanes.

What amazes me is the complete lack of concern for the guy on the scooter by the car driver as well as all the other traffic that just kept right on going! What The? emoticon
I agree with TrafficJammer. The car was definitely accelerating too fast for traffic conditions, and the scooterist was at fault for failing to check the lane before changing. He was lucky he wasn't run over by the car, and he was fortunately wearing a helmet even though he lacked other safety gear.
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I'm shocked he isn't covered with road rash from chin to toe.
I love the part where he gets his flip-flop.
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stinkyjones wrote:
I love the part where he gets his flip-flop.
Yep. That tickled me too.
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I think it's amazing how different people see this in their minds.

IMO: Even if it was in the US we your not supposed to pass on the right... that scooterist is the biggest buffoon for not looking into the lane that he intended to move to.
IMHO: He's also an idiot for wearing flip flops!

Poor driver. Maybe the scooter should pay for the dent in the car's bumper.
DougL wrote:
stinkyjones wrote:
I love the part where he gets his flip-flop.
Yep. That tickled me too.
Yeah, that had me cracking up
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Both the rider and driver have a reasonable share of "fault" here" I don't know the rules in HK but the rider should have shoulder checked before changing and the driver should have anticipated the rider. We are seeing this from a rider's stand point but the lane was open when he changed. In California, the driver in the rear has the responsibility to avoid any hazard in front of them, so it may be considered the driver's fault.
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TechGuy wrote:
In California, the driver in the rear has the responsibility to avoid any hazard in front of them, so it may be considered the driver's fault.
You what? That's completely daft. If someone in front of you suddenly moves into your lane, you're at fault? The law is then a complete ass.
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DougL wrote:
TechGuy wrote:
In California, the driver in the rear has the responsibility to avoid any hazard in front of them, so it may be considered the driver's fault.
You what? That's completely daft. If someone in front of you suddenly moves into your lane, you're at fault? The law is then a complete ass.
Yeah I think that is true in most US states. In fact, there is a cottage crime industry for insurance scammers that do this intentionally. One is called a 'swoop and squat' i think.
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DougL wrote:
TechGuy wrote:
In California, the driver in the rear has the responsibility to avoid any hazard in front of them, so it may be considered the driver's fault.
You what? That's completely daft. If someone in front of you suddenly moves into your lane, you're at fault? The law is then a complete ass.
Yeah, I'm not buying that either.
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Typewritist wrote:
DougL wrote:
TechGuy wrote:
In California, the driver in the rear has the responsibility to avoid any hazard in front of them, so it may be considered the driver's fault.
You what? That's completely daft. If someone in front of you suddenly moves into your lane, you're at fault? The law is then a complete ass.
Yeah, I'm not buying that either.
Buy it or not, that is the case in California and most states that don't have "no fault" clauses.

By default, the person who did the rear ending is at fault legally, unless there is some other mitigating circumstance.

IANAL, but I think the driver would retain most of the fault legally. The scooterist completed the lane change in time. the motorist is clearly going too fast for the conditions as he passes every vehicle at a significant delta.

However, the law does not comment on the fact that was a case of the scooterist nearly being "dead right".

The Laws of Physicals are absolute, and there is no appeal...
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it's the law for a reason
Not to look a nerd here, but passing anyone with enough of a relative difference in speed as to be unable to react is dangerous, and the reason for the law. Yeah that scooter was too slow to pull that lane change (if u arent going to look u have to be on a sport bike dummy), but the car was at fault for doing 30mph faster than the cars he was passing... If he was passing 5, 10, or even 15mph mph faster than the scooter he wouldn't have rear ended him, that's why the scooter duder looks like such a dipshit- he wasn't planning on some brobra going twice his own speed. Just sayin...

BUT, he went for the F-ing horn instead of the breaks. Trust me, u cant honk and maximally brake at the same time.
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I think the video would most certainly be used in any court of law and I am pretty sure any judge (regardless of what country/state/province they may be from) ... he/she would find both the driver and rider equally responsible. If I were a judge or on a jury, I know I would deem it to be rider and driver error. There are no innocents in this one.

Personally, I think they are both screwed. Clearly, the car was traveling too quickly already ... and the driver had just changed up gears to goose it even more when the collision occurred. The rider was nuts not to signal his intent to change lanes or to do a shoulder check before making his move.

I have no idea what type of insurance they have wherever they are ... but I think each of their companies will end up paying out and both the driver and rider will get a fairly hefty premium increase the next time they have to pay their insurance premium.
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Maybe I see it differently, but from what I can tell, the scooterist pulled out into the fast lane (this being Hong Kong) and then slams on his brakes for no apparent reason--there's clearly nothing in front of him. While it would be technically the driver's fault here in the U.S. for rear-ending him (and perhaps the driver could have applied his brakes sooner), this video could be used to present evidence that the scooterist did something unsafe and completely unexpected--slamming on his brakes after pulling into the fast lane for no apparent reason. Yikes. Either the scooterist was part of an insane insurance scam or he's just insane.
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I am glad some of you aren't sitting on juries.

What makes you think the driver was going too fast for conditions? What was his speed? He was passing cars? Big deal - most of those were big trucks just trying to get back up to speed from slowing down at the earlier incident - going 20mph would make it look like they were sitting still.

He was in the far right (passing or fast lane) where he should have been. Should he have stayed in the center or left lanes behind a huge line of slow trucks? Nope. They were there because of the earlier incident and because they go slow. He was in the right lane because he's a car and can get up to speed.

He had a clear lane and the scooterist just jerked over into his lane and slammed on his brakes. I ONLY see scooter error.

And while in many cases it is a driver's fault if he hits someone in the rear, that is not a concrete law - if you are going 65mph in the center lane (speed limit) and someone comes from the left lane right in front of you at 55mph that is certainly not going to be your fault. At least not to any reasonable person.

As far as not buying it and it being the law:

As they say in Missouri: Show Me.
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If this were to have happened in CA, one of the two parties involved would determined to be "at fault", as in 100% financially responsible for the accident. We don't get to share fault here. The process of the determining the fault may be full of intentions and assumptions but in the the end, one person is "right" the other is "wrong".

The "at fault" is a black/white decision, with no gray areas.
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To quote myself:
MarkTheBlue wrote:
The scooter rider is also lucky he wasn't dumped into the adjacent lane in front of oncoming traffic. Poor riding and a stark reminder of the importance of rear mirror and shoulder checks.

That said, the car driver doesn't read the developing situation particularly well and appears to hit the horn before the brakes. Aggressive. I reckon he can be on those brakes a second or two sooner. Then again, if he wasn't hammering it quite so much, he wouldn't have needed to be. Putting myself behind the wheel in that situation, I'd like to think that I'm anticipating the scooter pulling out by the 31 second mark...
And no concept of contributory negligence? Wow, that's tough and, IMO, not entirely "real world"...

Best,

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Just google "hong kong rear end accident fault"

It seems Hong Kong is an "at fault" jurisdiction, making the driver of the car liable for the damages. However, I would agree, if this video were introduced as evidence, and I was on the jury, I would have to conclude the scooter was negligent. And if the jury had any say in an award to damaged parties, that award would be minimal.
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Typewritist once again makes sense Clap emoticon

HOWEVER, rather than discussing how the law sucks or doesn't suck, how about taking 15 seconds and learn from that video something/anything for riding or driving any vehicle, and then try to apply it.



Riding in Europe is such a treat as compared to the US; the law there is very clear about what are transit lanes and what are passing lanes.

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RitchjWalter Sobchak : Those rich fcuks! This whole fcukking thing... I did not watch my buddies read about soldiers dieing face down in the muck in history class so that this fcuking strumpet scooterist would be required to wear safety gear...

The Dude: I don't see any connection to Vietnam, Scootering Walter Ritchj

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stickyfrog wrote:
It almost looks like the scooterist was intentionally trying to get hit. No headturn before the lane change and then hits the brakes when he hears the horn? I know it was probably a panic reaction but damn, what a bad time to confuse the brake with the throttle.
The whole thing looks staged. The car driver just happened to have a camera going. The scooter passes him, then pulls in front of him and brakes. The car doesn't even brake until he hits the scooter. And what is that rider made of, iron? No road rash? Just gets up and walks over? I'm guessing the whole thing happened at about 10 miles an hour... I smell a set-up...

-Dan
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The video proves it's the cars fault, especially as far as traffic court would be concerned. Of course it's the scooterists fault for being a dipshit, but just because you hammer it the second there's a window of space, and even if "your" lane is relatively clear, it doesn't mean you have any sort of speed related entitlement.
Ps- It's not the scooter from earlier in the video.
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The lane was clearly empty on the left,
Why was the scooterist being such a noob?

I wouldn't have risked that kind of lane change,
He's very lucky to be alive.

Poor judgement of speed kills,
He was lucky to get off so lightly.
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Don't forget this all happens in the immediate vicinity of an accident, the car could have killed a paramedic stepping out from in front of one of those stopped cars!
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MilliniumFalcon wrote:
Don't forget this all happens in the immediate vicinity of an accident, the car could have killed a paramedic stepping out from in front of one of those stopped cars!
The car didn't start to accelerate until well after the accident scene. Take another look.
⚠️ Last edited by stickyfrog on UTC; edited 2 times
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MilliniumFalcon wrote:
The video proves it's the cars fault, especially as far as traffic court would be concerned. Of course it's the scooterists fault for being a dipshit, but just because you hammer it the second there's a window of space, and even if "your" lane is relatively clear, it doesn't mean you have any sort of speed related entitlement.
Ps- It's not the scooter from earlier in the video.
Huh? SO if someone is in the fast lane, and someone jerks over in front of them from a slower lane, and is going slower than the car in the fast lane, and slams on their brakes it is the car's fault?
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true nuff
well it is 15 seconds after the accident, maybe i went a little too devils advocate on that one...
But yeah, if the cars in the lane next to you are nearly stopped, its definitely your fault for blasting past them at 70mph. We're not talking double yellow lines here people- ever heard this, "you probably shouldn't fly past these cars, someone could pull out in front of you at any moment!" It's not like the rear end law is arbitrary, it keeps people from racing through congestion- it's basically the law version of "you never know when someone is about to pull out without looking, so drive accordingly." Without that law no one would ever dare merge in front of giant truck wielding rednecks! Its common sense not to drive seventy times faster than the people in the nearest lanes, and while its not explicitly illegal to do so, you run the risk of hitting someone and getting ticketed for that...
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Re: true nuff
MilliniumFalcon wrote:
But yeah, if the cars in the lane next to you are nearly stopped, its definitely your fault for blasting past them at 70mph.
Where are you getting 70mph? The car came to almost an immediate stop when hitting the scooter, not skidding for 60 or more feet.

Quote:
We're not talking double yellow lines here people- ever heard this, "you probably shouldn't fly past these cars, someone could pull out in front of you at any moment!"
Have you driven on the interstate? The left lane (or right lane in this instance) is for exactly that - moving faster than cars in the other lanes.
Quote:
It's not like the rear end law is arbitrary, it keeps people from racing through congestion- it's basically the law version of "you never know when someone is about to pull out without looking, so drive accordingly." Without that law no one would ever dare merge in front of giant truck wielding rednecks! Its common sense not to drive seventy times faster than the people in the nearest lanes, and while its not explicitly illegal to do so, you run the risk of hitting someone and getting ticketed for that...
The scooterist came from a slower lane into a faster lane and a greatly reduced rate and hit his brakes when he did so - directly into the path of another vehicle.
@stickyfrog avatar
UTC

Moderatus Rana
MP3 250 and 2 MP3 500s
Joined: UTC
Posts: 22659
Location: Nashville, Indiana
 
Moderatus Rana
@stickyfrog avatar
MP3 250 and 2 MP3 500s
Joined: UTC
Posts: 22659
Location: Nashville, Indiana
UTC quote
Re: true nuff
MilliniumFalcon wrote:
well it is 15 seconds after the accident, maybe i went a little too devils advocate on that one...
But yeah, if the cars in the lane next to you are nearly stopped, its definitely your fault for blasting past them at 70mph. We're not talking double yellow lines here people- ever heard this, "you probably shouldn't fly past these cars, someone could pull out in front of you at any moment!" It's not like the rear end law is arbitrary, it keeps people from racing through congestion- it's basically the law version of "you never know when someone is about to pull out without looking, so drive accordingly." Without that law no one would ever dare merge in front of giant truck wielding rednecks! Its common sense not to drive seventy times faster than the people in the nearest lanes, and while its not explicitly illegal to do so, you run the risk of hitting someone and getting ticketed for that...
70 huh? Your crystal ball must be better than mine. I have no idea how fast the other cars were going compared to the involved car and I suspect you don't either. He did have a clear lane and was accelerating but I have no idea if he was over the speed limit or not.

As described earlier I have had experience with an idiot pulling in front of me then hitting the brakes and while I got the ticket I was not at fault or at least not entirely.

Oh and the redneck comment...in the context you used it could be pretty insulting to some. I am not the pc police but you seemed to use it in a derogatory form like "ok we are all vespa people so I can say redneck here right?"
UTC

Hooked
GTV 400
Joined: UTC
Posts: 107
Location: 80209
 
Hooked
GTV 400
Joined: UTC
Posts: 107
Location: 80209
UTC quote
Yes, i ride the fast lane at 90 all day, but i know it's not the safest thing to be doing when the people in the next lane over are slowed and someone's likely to make the jump! So maybe he was going 40-50, either way the lane the scoot came from was vastly slower. Also it doesn't look like the scooter hit the breaks until he thought he was going to get smoked. Like i said, there's no law saying it's illegal to accelerate, but if you do accelerate faster than everyone else, and then hit someone in the ass, it's always your fault. It's ok to pass, but if it's so much faster than the next lane, to the point where you can't stop in time, then it's reckless. That's just the law, the scoot definitely came out at the last possible second. In the vid I can see the slowed traffic approaching, and this dude is still accelerating - betting nothing will happen. Guess he didn't know the "swerve into the shoulder trick" all the SUV drivers here use.

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