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UTC

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Vespa LX150, Vespa Spint 3V
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Location: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
 
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Vespa LX150, Vespa Spint 3V
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Location: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
UTC quote
My LX150 doesn't start anymore. I'm using it to go to work every day and two days ago it refused to start in the morning. It hasn't been raining the day before and I didn't wash it recently. The start motor is working. It's about two years old and has 11k km on it.

I did some checking and with a spark tester I found that I have no spark. The tester is good because on my wife's LX150 I see the spark. It might have something to do with the ECU because I don't see the immobilizer LED when I remove the key, I do see it briefly going on and off when I turn the key so that part seems to work good. All lights are working too. I removed, checked, and connected the battery again but that didn't help. Using the 'red' key didn't help too.

I still have extended warranty so I can go to my dealer but that is a hassle. The workshop manual describes how to check the Pick-up and HT coil at the ECU. Would that be useful for me, even though I don't see the immobilizer LED when I remove the key? Where is the ECU anyway?
@jimc avatar
UTC

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The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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@jimc avatar
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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UTC quote
Is the battery fully charged? This is essential.

What *exactly* happens in flash timing - duration and number of flashes on the code LED when you turn the key on?

And you have checked the kill-switch for continuity, right?
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Vespa LX150, Vespa Spint 3V
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UTC quote
Yes, the battery is fully charged. I actually used the trickle charger to top it up before I tried again today, I thought my endless retries two days ago might have drained it a bit. The battery is six months old and looks fine.

When I remove the key the LED is off and stays off, which is not right. When I insert and turn it the LED flashes once for less than a second, after that it stays off, which is all normal behavior. Same behavior with the 'red' key.

I checked the kill switch, if it is in 'kill mode' the starter motor doesn't even turn, if it is in 'running' mode the starter motor turns happily l but I have no spark.
@jimc avatar
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The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
 
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@jimc avatar
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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Posts: 44656
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
UTC quote
In order of cheapness - spark plug, coil, CDI. Each can easily be tested by substitution.
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UTC

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Vespa LX150, Vespa Spint 3V
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Location: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
 
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UTC quote
Before I change anything I would like to be sure that the ECU/CDI is working correctly. The document "Immobilizer_Fault_Finding.pdf" lists for the scenario "FAULT: With Ignition turned off the LED light is not flashing" to check the following:
- Fuse;
- Continuity permanent live wire to CDI;
- Continuity switched live wire to CDI;
- Continuity wire from fuse to ignition switch;
- Continuity CDI connector to battery negative.

Where is the ECU/CDI located exactly? I cannot remember seeing anything with a bunch of connectors and wires. And how do I check for example the "Continuity permanent live wire to CDI", just by connecting a DC volt meter between terminal 4 (permanent live) and terminal 8 (earth) of the CDI? Or do I disconnect the battery and check for zero resistance between positive battery lead and terminal 4 on the CDI?
UTC

Hooked
79 vespa p200 & 03 vespa et4
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Location: eunice,La.
 
Hooked
79 vespa p200 & 03 vespa et4
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Location: eunice,La.
UTC quote
lx150 won't start
i had similar problem on my et4 same as lx system, cdi is under front removeable panel on shield. my problem was the relay near the cdi, vespa calls it remote switch. try unpluging it & replug several times & see what happens. mine would work at times & not others, i replaced it with one from napa which has brass plug contacts much better than original. hope this helps . nelson
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Vespa LX150, Vespa Spint 3V
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UTC quote
I brought the scooter to the dealer and it proved to be the ECU/CDI, when he swapped it for a new one everything worked fine, the spark is back and so is the immobilizer LED when you remove the key. I could have done that myself but who has a spare ECU at home?

The sad thing is that my extended warranty was suddenly considered void and I had to pay for it myself, in total $500 which incl. the ECU, a new key set, and tax/labour. My extended warranty was supposed to end sometime next year but last year the US-based Piaggio Group Americas (PGA) didn't extend the contract of their distributor in Canada, Canadian Scooter Corp (CSC), and took over the distribution themselves. They conveniently only honour the basic warranty of one year and not the extended warranty of two more years.

What a joke, obviously the number one concern for PGA is not the customer but their shareholders. The costs are also absurd, for $500 I buy a brand new laptop. I like Vespa's and I like the support I get through forums like these but I most certainly will try to avoid buying any Piaggio parts if possible in the future, just to get back to them. Ha, that will teach them.
@judy avatar
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World Traveler
2007 LX150 Daring Plum Leonardo Da Vespa
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@judy avatar
2007 LX150 Daring Plum Leonardo Da Vespa
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UTC quote
HOOG Is that legal I mean can they change your warranty mid stream like that? I can see not doing new ones but they should honor the old ones I don't know enough about your legal system to know if you have the right to sue etc. Hope you do because that 's just wrong. That's the first time where i've read about a faulty CDI on an LX. Usually the battery, fuel. pump etc. Glad your back on the road again.
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Vespa LX150, Vespa Spint 3V
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UTC quote
Not sure if it is legal but I'm planning to find out, I'm thinking of submitting a case to the small claims court. The costs for that are minimal and I never did that before so that might be interesting. I will first try to contact Piaggio USA a few more times to see if they are willing to reimburse me without having to go to court, giving me a CDI for free must be much cheaper for them than having their lawyer show up at a silly small claims court in Ontario.
@harvey avatar
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2016 Honda NC750XD, 2007 GTS (sold),
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Location: Canada
 
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@harvey avatar
2016 Honda NC750XD, 2007 GTS (sold),
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UTC quote
If you bought from Motoretta, it's possible that your extended warranty is with Canadian Scooter Corp. (the former distributor), not Piaggio USA. If that's the case, you'll have to contact CSC about your warranty claims.
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Vespa LX150, Vespa Spint 3V
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Location: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
UTC quote
I bought the scooter from Vespa Burlington but the extended warranty is with CSC. My dealer actually showed me that the fax and phone numbers he was supposed to use in the past to claim the warranty with CSC are now out of service. I will contact CSC too just to be sure but I would think that since Piaggio USA didn't renew their distribution contract they also don't feel responsible for the warranty anymore.

So maybe CSC is still legally responsible for the warranty. Or maybe Piaggio USA, since they took over the distribution in Canada by force. Maybe I should start a small claim against both of them. Any legal advise is welcome.
@harvey avatar
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2016 Honda NC750XD, 2007 GTS (sold),
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@harvey avatar
2016 Honda NC750XD, 2007 GTS (sold),
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Location: Canada
UTC quote
Well, here's The head of Piaggio USA's take on it
from last year in: e-mail of reassurance for all Canadians, From: Paolo Timoni
Club Scooter wrote:
Dear Shane,



Thank you for your email and for the opportunity to share a quick update regarding Piaggio Group presence in Canada. As we announced on November 10th, see attached press release at the bottom of this email, we are very committed to the Canadian market and are planning for a long term presence in the market. Following the termination of our distribution agreement with Canadian Scooter Corp., we are currently in the process of setting up new business operations to provide the highest level of service to our Canadian customers. We are very happy with our progress so far. Currently we are already supporting Canadian retailers of Piaggio Group products by fulfilling their warranty claims for standard manufacturer warranty and their spare parts orders. We anticipate that by end of February we will have a dealer network in place with executed dealer agreements with Piaggio Group Americas and will be able to resume normal business operations.



The majority of Canadian retailers involved in Piaggio Group products, have already reached out to us and have warmly welcomed our direct entrance in the Canadian market. I believe Canadian customers of Piaggio Group products, and Vespa in particular, have no reason to be concerned: they own products of the highest quality, that retain a high second hand value, and that will continue to benefit from a high-level of customer service. With regard to your specific questions, following are some preliminary observation:

- Extended warranty: this is a product that was developed and retailed by CSC (see form attached we received from a Canadian retailer). At this point CSC is still an ongoing business and we have no reasons to doubt that they will continue to meet their legal obligations. In any case we will continue to monitor the situation.

- Small dealers: we believe small and large dealers are very important for a sound distribution network. Despite the challenging economic situation, most dealers are coping reasonably well and we have observe only a few cases of dealers forced to close their operations because of financial reasons. We anticipate that by end of February we will have a network of authorized dealers in Canada appointed by PGA that will include both small and large dealers. In selecting the new network of authorized dealers we will consider all applications from dealers that have been retailing Piaggio Group products in Canada in the past.

- Spare parts: since last week we have resume shipments of spare parts for all dealers in good standing that are placing orders with PGA. Service levels to Canadian customers should resume very quickly.

- Buying a Vespa: I believe that today as in the past buying a Vespa is a great decision for any consumer interested in scooters and I do not see any reason why a purchase decision should be postponed. All standard manufacturer warranties will be honored by PGA and service levels will be insured.

- Toronto show: unfortunately this year we will not be able to participate as we have decided to focus our resources on other priorities, mainly supporting dealers and customers.



I hope this address your questions. If you need further information, please do not hesitate to contact me. During this transition of business operations it is very important for us to keep in touch with the owners of our products and to address all their needs and concerns. Piaggio Group is here to stay in Canada and is committed to continue to provide a better and better service to its Canadian customers.



Best regards



Paolo Timoni

President and CEO

Piaggio Group Americas Inc.
But Vespa Burlington put this out regarding extended warranties:
VespaBurlington wrote:
The recent events have definitely been interesting for everyone involved.

Based on our understanding - any existing Canadian dealer that is in good standings and has been approved by PGA will have there vehicles and warranties covered by the manufacturer - meaning PGA! Any dealer (or distributor/importer) that has not been approved will not have the authorization to offer warranty coverage thru PGA - meaning you are purchasing a vehicle without warranty!

Extended warranties were the responsibility of Vespa Canada NOT Piaggio Group Americas; therefore we have decided, along with several other dealerships, to only honour extended warranties that were supplied by us (we will most likely not be reimbursed for this work so this is the reason for this decision).

The effective date was November 6, 2009 for the transition of ownership from CSC back to PGA. Using this as the effective date - many of the Ontario dealers have elected to only honour vehicle warranties that were sold by authorized Piaggio Group Americas dealers. Any warranties on vehicles sold by dealers outside of this "authorized group" - will not be honoured unless prior approval is received by PGA (in writing!).

Step back and take a moment to understand one thing...when a deal is too good - maybe it just is! Make sure that your money is working for you because if you spend a little more you will get twice its value in service!
Bold added by me, in: Canadian Vespa News... HUGE !

because it's forbidden to slag off a dealer on the forum I'll refrain from further comment, other than suggest you print out a copy of the original thread in case you need it in the future.

Good Luck!
OP
UTC

Member
Vespa LX150, Vespa Spint 3V
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Location: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
 
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Vespa LX150, Vespa Spint 3V
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Location: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
UTC quote
Thanks Harvey, good stuff. I tried to contact the CSC on 416-537-3001 but that number is out of service. I googled on CSC but didn't find any other number. I also sent Clyde Grey at Motoretta an email if he knew another way to contact CSC but he doesn't know, or if he does he cannot tell me. Does anybody know if I can still use the same legal name and business address for the CSC as it was in the past, for my small claim submission? Or are they really out of business and is there nothing to sue anymore?

I also contacted Customer Care of Piaggio USA and left them a message to get back to me, Paolo Timoni mentioned in his email that "we will continue to monitor the situation" concerning the extended warranty obligations of the CSC and I wanted to help him with that.
⬆️    About 27 days elapsed    ⬇️
OP
UTC

Member
Vespa LX150, Vespa Spint 3V
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Location: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
 
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Vespa LX150, Vespa Spint 3V
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Location: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
UTC quote
Well, I have to admit that I was all wrong about Piaggio USA. I sent the CEO Paolo Timoni an email explaining the situation to him and asking him to review the extended warranty issue. He replied back within an hour that he would look into it and a few days later my dealer contacts me that he has been authorized by Piaggio USA to refund me the repair costs. How about that? According to my dealer the fact that the CDI needed to be replaced might have helped here since it is such an unusual part to break.

I'm really impressed by this kind of customer service and I have all the confidence in the Piaggio brand back.

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