Modern Vespa

I understand that the nature of these beasties is that they require more maintenance than a modern scoot, but all things considered, how reliable are the pre P's?

Let me qualify that: I'm not speaking of some trashed out junkyard refugee that's had cobbled up repairs for the past 4 decades but when they were new or after a correct restoration.

Granted, even when new they may not have been as reliable as they may be today (improved replacement parts, better lubes etc)

I'm going to restore my critter from stem to stern as I cannot tolerate having to repair it on the installment plan (IE: something breaks on every ride). Does that make economic sense? Perhaps not but it gives me peace of mind, and I can use every extra piece I can get.

I dare to say once you get it to where you want it( tuned) after a rebuild. It's the same as a early P series. Just check things out once in a while before things loosen up.

I find if you don't Mickey mouse things and try to do it right the first time it works out much better.

as long as im picking at it and always checking stuff, it is very reliable. took me awhile to get it all sorted at first but now she is running so fantastic.

and ill do a shout-out to scooters O for the perfect crank. my engine has never been so smooth.

Am going to build it as bone stock....only then with a baseline for comparison, will I attempt any mods.

Have read how some people have an issue with front brake dive and have converted to later forks. While this may be something I "need" I'd like to experience the "bad" dive first.

The following refers to stock scooters, ridden in the manner that was originally intended and given scheduled maintenance as described in the owner's manual.

It would depend on your definition of "maintenance". If you compare the hours involved in regularly scheduled maintenance per 10,000 miles as stated in the operator's manual, the shifty Vespa (pre or post P Series) is a hands down winner. In the first 20,000 miles, is there a task that takes as much time as a belt inspection or a component with the typical life span of the belt? Similarly, compare the engine oil and filter change on a modern to the lack of same on a shifty. Yes, point changes take some time on the older shifies.

So, the question then turns to unscheduled maintenance (component failures), and I would suggest that one would also be hard pressed to find a real advantage in modern scoots.

As I have posted numerous times before:

A significant majority of the "maintenance" on a shifty Vespa is pure and simple voluntary tinkering. A significant portion of the remaining "maintenance" is as a direct result of that voluntary tinkering.

Your post reminds me of the comparison between older American versus British cars:

Brits tinker all week so they can drive on the weekends while Yanks tinker on the weekend so they can drive all week.

I must have done something wrong most of my life. Drive only Brit Roadsters from 1962 until 1991. Triumphs, MGs, Healeys. Put over 150k miles on several of them, to include several transcontinental trips. Raced them. Ran road rallies. Did all the maint and tuning myself. Basically trouble free.

Would kill to have a TR-3 or bugeye Sprite here. Would also kill to have the money to buy one in good condition.

With that sorta luck I need you to tag along with me to Vegas or Reno! I've had to rewire more British cars due to electrical fires than I have missing hairs on my head LOL

Electrics by Lucas - Prince of Darkness!

Ya know what's scarier than my cholesterol levels?

Lucas makes the avionics for Airbus!!! They don't call them "Scarebus" for nuthin. If it ain't Boeing I ain't going.

Hello

This is the servicing regime for my 55,000 mile scoot it was used for work in london traffic and only ever suffered a boken clutch cable and lots of speedo cables outside of the servicing.

This is the ideal usually the cables have broken before if you are unlucky especially the speedo cable.

Daily

Check lights and horn.


Weekly

Check tyres and pressures, check 2t, wash and check fastener tightness, grease as needed.


1500 miles

Check brake pads, once you have established the wear levels replace as required.



3000 miles


Replace gearbox oil and spark plug.


9000 miles

replace clutch cable and gear inners.


12000 miles


Check wheel bearings and backplate needle rollers, grease and replace as required, clean and measure rear brake shoes, measure front disc.


General

Lights, speedo cables as required and all else

Regards

Grumpy

You mean to say that cleaning the carb is not part of regular maintenance? I do the same as above but clean and blow out the carb every 3 weeks.

lucas makes the wiring? for sure the headlights and stereo isn't going to work

I hate to break this to you, but Lucas supplies avionics to Boeing too. Lucas jokes are fun, but in a lot of ways, the reputation is not really deserved. A Jag mechanic friend of mine explained it to me this way: "When Boeing goes to Lucas and says they need an electric motor to move the ailerons on a 767, Lucas says it will cost you $4900.00 per unit and Boeing says no problem. When Jaguar (or BMC) goes to Lucas and says they need a motor to run some power windows, Lucas says it will cost $49.00 per unit and they are asked what they can do for $4.50".

Additionally, a lot of the problems Americans seem to have with British electrical systems on cars are also due to them not understanding the positive ground system. It only takes one time putting the battery in backwards or hooking up jumper cables incorrectly to irreparably damage important components and wiring looms.

Having said that, working on a Stella and seeing the double whammy written on the starter motor (LUCAS - Made in India) was a little scary.

Actually, I found it to be a "double whammy". Positive ground (until later models went negative) and a total lack of electrical trouble shooting skill.

We were very fortunate to have a true trouble shooting mentor in 7th and 8th grade shop class. He was absolutely rigorous in teaching us how to read wiring diagrams and isolate faults in electrical circuits. Years later, in aircraft maintenance officer/test pilot school, I found what he taught us made the course infinitely easier.

Hello

No never cleaned out the carb only cleaned and oiled air filter..

Grumpy

wow! am i alone on this?

Hello

I would have cleaned the carb if I had to, list below is the parts used to maintain the px, I forgot how many bearings I used (probably 5) and no rear suspension but two blocks.


PX 200 at 50,000 miles spares and fuel used



Fuel used: 2845 Litres = 17.39 miles per litre 79.06 miles per imperial gallon

2T Oil: 48 Litres

Tyres: 12 Michelin S1

Disc Pads:19 sets

Discs: 1

Rear Brake shoes: 5 Sets

Hubs: 1

Clutch Cables: Inners: 10

Clutch Outers:1

Clutch Plates: 1 set (clutch came loose on shaft)

Speedo Cables: 14

Speedo skew gear: 3

Front Suspension units: 2

Headlamp bulbs: 15


Gear cables: 4 sets


Exhausts: 1


Regards

Grumpy

Thanks to Grumpy for the detailed list...one question I'm not clear on, what do you mean by "gear inners"?

Back to the 'real topic': electonicals and the magic smoke that powers them

Vehicle electrix are one of my expertise and I thoroughly understand them. Having owned a classic American car restoration shop am more than familiar with positive grounds. Simple way to determine a vehicle's ground: check the ignition coil to see the polarity of the terminal connected to the points *assuming no one's messed with it previously!*

Can't comment on Boeing's pricing other than the paperwork that the FAA requires on certified parts is friggin insane. I can buy an identical uncertified part that doesn't have the pedigree for anywhere from half to a 10th of the price. Don't know what standards the rest of the whirled requires but I would imagine that if their bird is flying into our airspace that it had better be up to snuff.

When you've seen as many Jaguars with utterly nuked power window switches as I have you'd have the same lowly opinion of Lucas...at least as they were at the time...I sincerely hope they've improved as they couldn't get much worse (in my experience)

Hello

I know every one takes the rise out of LUCAS but if you have ever tried MILLER you know what dark is.

Grumpy

That is a super smart way to go about things. A properly sorted and maintained Vespa or Lambretta will seldom let you down.

Spank you very mulch Mike. Maybe it's just me, but I figger this to be common sense. That's part of the reason I moved out of SF LOL!

you'd think common sense would prevail. I think it's easy to get caught up in your own enthusiasm when you first get involved in scooters and you want to have a shiny, speedy scooter just like the other guys.

I always recommend that people start with a stock scooter and concentrate on developing their riding and maintenance skills for at least a year before embarking on restoration or modification.

I've watched too many restoration projects that end with the owner crashing the bike within days (or feet) of completing the project or selling it off as a basket case because he lost interest.

[quote="Mike Z"] My engine may be in several pieces down to the ball bearing and the crank. The frame may be stripped down to bare metal (and rust). The tires might still have the sticker on them.

But after a year and a half of working to restore my Allstate, I can say that I haven't lost interest, yet... just a set of needle bearings

On the plus side, powder coating parts is really fun...

see that you don't!

When I was a wee laddie I owned a 5 or 6 year old Sportique 150. I put on 40,000 in two years.

Maintenance? The only regular maintenance was fixing the fuel tank when it got empty.

Oh, and I occasionally buggered up the brake drums by riding in sand and dirt.

Let me see, this is 45 years ago, so bare with me, I wore out the clutch by popping wheelies; every couple o' years, or if I felt like having fun, I'd take off the cylinder head and scratch at the carbon (made no difference to anything); went through tyres now and again; messed with the spark plug whenever me mates did.

We wore through the crankcase by cornering hard; we rode mud plugs and gymkhanas; Dragged college gear 300 miles each way. Even fitted a sidecar.

It seems to me that modern vehicles are much more delicate than my oldie. I read in the General forum of bikes being totalled after being blown over by the wind. There are problems with all the stuff the Sportique didn't have, such as fuel pumps and computers and vapor canister thingumies.

Are the new frames weaker than the old ones?

Or is it just my mind?

EFI and cornpewters are wunnerfull when they're working, but you can't regap the ECU with a matchbook cover when it craps out in the middle of nowhere!

K.I.S.S.