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I know this is waaaaaaay off topic but it was so cool i wanted to post it.

I went to visit my new chiropractor/A.R.T. practitioner in Chiswick this morning. He gave me a very thorough work-up, which included asking me if I had any body piercings. As it happens, I have (or had, until this morning) a navel piercing.

He then showed me something remarkable. I was lying on my back on the examination table. He asked me to raise my arm - he tried to push it back down to my side, and asked me to resist. The first time he tried to push it back down, I was easily able to resist. The second time he tried it, he put one finger on my piercing. Amazingly, this seemed to drain all the strength from my arm - he was able to push it back down to my side with no trouble at all.

What he'd done by touching the piercing was to 'complete a circuit', which had the effect of making me lose about half of the strength in my arm. Apparently, some people react very badly to metal in their bodies, particularly near major organs and muscle groups. It turns out that I'm one of those people

the piercing has been in there for about 10 years, but it came out as soon as i got home.
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UTC quote
Maybe that's why I am such a wimp. No wait haven't got any piercing. Maybe its my fillings or the screws in my elbow.

Its an amazing bit of information. In any case its now my official excuse.
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Gobshite Shiva
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UTC quote
I don't think it works the same way if the metal is attached to bone or tooth enamel - sorry
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UTC quote
I don't care. Its my first real excuse for being a wimp and I am clinging on to it. My wife said I am more of a sook than a wimp. Not sure if that's better or not.
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UTC quote
Genie, Be interesting to try the same experiment with and without the metal.
Best
Miguel
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UTC quote
Maybe it is a new twist on the old Vulcan nerve pinch technique.

Seriously though did you complete the experiment by removing the piercing and just have him touch your belly button?
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UTC quote
Miguel wrote:
Genie, Be interesting to try the same experiment with and without the metal.
Best
Miguel
Agreed.

My curiosity about this matter is... if your body "reacts poorly to metal" how come there have been no ill health effects? What type of "circuit" is he completing?

I'm just throwing this out there: hypnotists and magicians make use of psychological tricks to accomplish just the type of thing you experienced with the chiropractor. One of my psychology professors performed a "trick" just like this once on our class. He was a frail, 5 foot tall 80 year old man. He got big hulking hockey players and the like to come down front. Had them hold their arms out. Tried to push/pull their arms down. Couldn't. Then he touched them (i think it was on their forehead) and said he'd try again. A combination of distraction and the susceptibility of wondering what the contact had done/was supposed to do made it so they couldn't, as hard as they tried, resist and hold their arms up. Big hulking guys, really trying hard!

These guys really couldn't seem to resist and really were trying. The experience, for them, was surely surprising and shocking... felt very real I think. It's been done to me before, too

I'm not a physician, so I can't say I know this guy was wrong. But I suspect that had you not had a ring, and he'd simply directed your attention to the concept that "pressure points" on your body such as your belly button can cause "shock to your muscle system" or some such, he could have had the same affect.

If it were me, and I'd had a body adornment I was fond of for 10 years... I'd keep it in unless a doctor told me it was having ill health effects.
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UTC quote
I've had acupuncture treatments for years, and yes they do work. It's amazing when they even press on a point, but when a needle is inserted on some occasions, I've occasionally kicked like a galvanized frog.

And there are hundreds or more points all over, I'm sure a few near or on the navel.

These points are supposed to redirect energy around, or release it. That's why I kicked...too much energy had to be released.

Maybe you've just had an acupuncture treatment for ten years.
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UTC quote
Boondocks wrote:
Maybe you've just had an acupuncture treatment for ten years.
Body piercings are the gift that keeps on giving!

Either way, I'd be inclined to keep my body adornments in this circumstance.
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UTC quote
It is not necessary to know how an effect occurs in order to recognize that the effect occurred. The placebo effect is a case in point.

Naturopathic and traditional medical theory do not always agree on the mechanisms involved for the same events. Everyone has their own opinion on how they understand health and their body. Let us make sure that this thread does not become divisive along those lines.
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UTC quote
xantufrog wrote:
I'd keep it in unless a doctor told me it was having ill health effects.
Just to clarify, chiropractors can be doctors, dentists can be doctors, psychologists can be doctors, optometrists can be doctors, and so too can physicians. At least in Ontario.
OP
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Gobshite Shiva
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UTC quote
Facepalm emoticon i knew this would bring the sceptics out of the woodwork.

leaving aside the question of why in the world a reputable chiropractor with a successful practice would want to dupe me with a psychological parlor trick ... he wasn't hitting a pressure point. he was simply resting his finger very lightly on the piercing. i didn't even know he was touching it at all, until he told me afterwards. i'd assumed he was applying variable levels of force, but that wasn't the case.

xantufrog: the phrasing in the original email was mine - sorry if it wasn't properly scientific Razz emoticon ... but even if it was, i doubt i'd have convinced the sceptics anyways. i think there are two kinds of people in the world: those who believe in the effectiveness of alternative therapies, and those who don't. having had a younger brother whose progressive paralysis was successfully treated by a chiropractor, and having myself had pinched nerves sorted out in a single acupuncture treatment when my GP struggled for months without success - i'm firmly in the 'believer' camp.

michael: thank you
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UTC quote
mine was not skepticism but honest curiosity. have not tried acupuncture yet but i do love my chiropractor.
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UTC quote
@ Genie - I truly meant no offense. Sorry if it didn't come out correctly, but even if you HAD been "duped" as you put it, I admitted that I have been before by said parlor tricks. If you don't think it was a psychological effect, or know it wasn't a psychological effect, I have no way to challenge that!

@ Michael - sorry if I made waves. And I understand that all of the above can be doctors. Even moderators on Vespa forums can be doctors

For the record, to clear the air, I'm a psychologist studying cognitive neuroscience. My anecdote above wasn't meant to be derisive, to chiropractors, alternative medicine, or "psychological parlor tricks" ... psychology is my love. The power of the mind is amazing. What one might call parlor tricks, are, to me, examples of the incredible control masses of nerves can have over the body, and the incredible control one's mass of nerves can have on another's.

I believe my skepticism is part of what drives me to ask questions and makes me a good scientist. It's part of the complexity of my personality which manifests itself as wonder at the world. I'm a very curious person. Skepticism is only bad when it reaches a point of being unwilling to believe in or learn something new.

It didn't occur to me at the time that suggesting the possibility of a psychological influence on your muscle tone was insulting. In hindsight it is clear how that could be. Wasn't intended. In my little world, such a phenomenon, were it the explanation, is fun and interesting.

I just like to have my appearance be my own, and figured Genie should be able to have hers her way... I didn't want Genie to give up her body decorations of 10 years and whatnot if it WAS a psychological phenomenon.
⚠️ Last edited by xantufrog on UTC; edited 1 time
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Gobshite Shiva
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UTC quote
as a cultural theorist working at the intersection of cognitive neuroscience and aesthetics .... i am familiar enough with scepticism not to be offended

for a high-quality sceptic experience: try telling a room full of semioticians that the way an artwork makes you 'feel' is just as important as what it 'means'.

... and for what it's worth, i am just about at the age when body piercings start to look a bit silly anyway Razz emoticon
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UTC quote
Glad we're cool, yo

For the record, you don't look too old to dress as you would like from what I can see.
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External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text



Soooo, what does a Chiropractor from Chiswick look like?
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UTC quote
Very interesting. I guess piercings work along the same lines as acupuncture. The naval not being a good pressure point caused you to lose strength. Wonder how he found this little tidbit out? Thanks for sharing. 8)
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As Sergeant Shultz (from Hogans Heroes) would say: "I know nothing". (about this subject) but it's fun to read. Popcorn emoticon
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UTC quote
ritchj wrote:
Soooo, what does a Chiropractor from Chiswick look like?
actually he's kind of cute i think he runs marathons.
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UTC quote
genie wrote:
actually he's kind of cute i think he runs marathons.
Maybe a little muscle tone weak point is worth keeping a little body glitter then
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UTC quote
Belly rings are hot if you have the body for it. If you do genie, put it back in.

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I have been to three different chiros and found that placebo effect is strongly present in all cases. One of them tried to sell me homeopathic remedies which are truly worthless (Do the dilution calculations, statistically there will be NOT ONE molecule of the ingredient in them.) One of them, the youngest and most honest and intelligent of the lot actually sent me home with no "Adjustment" because he needed to crack my neck, and he said that recent studies suggest that there is a chance of knocking loose a plaque from the carotid artery in older pts and causing stroke. So I think they do some people good, just not me.

I continue to be impressed with the educational level, erudition, and thoughtful comments made here. Lets all pat ourselves on the back. Well, those of us who can reach back there anyway.

[And for the record back when I was earning an honest living my first name was "Doctor" too.]
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UTC quote
TOR2GA the mind is a great thing. If you keep a positive outlook/thinking you'll do better. Placebos work on that premise. If you think your getting something to help it just might. My rheumatoligist (one of the top 10 best in the USA) practices homeopathic as well as traditional medicine and he believes in the mind over matter theory to a certain degree. If we think something won't work (i'll use acupuncture as an example) it might not. I saw this when my bunny rabbit started to have back problems and it was causing his legs to become paralyzed. I had an animal acupuncturist work on him and it worked for a while. He had no preconceived ideas about the whole thing. He hopped much better after the treatments but it bought him some time since he eventually became totally paralyzed. after the treatment he had this drunk swagger
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metal mickey
that sounds wierd .... i have 10 piercings all over my bod and none of them seem to effect any muscle not even the one in my muscle

might have to try this on our lass and see if it works... she dont have a navel one but anywhere willl work right ??
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eeeee bip
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Rattle
That's all very interesting but the only words I seem to remember are "actually he's quite cute".

Thank

Bill X
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With ya Bill. I am thinking she must be drinking or suffered a momentary loss of sensitivity.
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UTC quote
world painted
bill the word cute only works on cats and ...err... sorry mate



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eeeee bip
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Clang
Chiropractors huh ? Dammit.

Bill X
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Gobshite Shiva
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UTC quote
oh ferfuxsake he was cute in a cuddly wee animal kind of way. he had the ewok going on. i wanted to pat him on the head and give him a biscuit. okay????
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UTC quote
Don't worry, Bill, chiropractors have nothin on ya
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UTC quote
genie wrote:
he was cute in a cuddly wee animal kind of way. he had the ewok going on. i wanted to pat him on the head and give him a biscuit.
Hey I resemble that remark
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@genie avatar
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Gobshite Shiva
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UTC quote
ROFL emoticon

sorry
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UTC quote
LOL an ewok that runs marathons...would like to see a pic... oh

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
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UTC quote
genie wrote:
ROFL emoticon

sorry
Never fear - soft, cuddly, and warm has worked well for me with New England women... it's cold here!
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
So Genie, next thing to try is to pull out any earrings.

cheers
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UTC quote
http://www.mcphee.com/shop/search.php?search_query=accupuncture+model&recommendation=998776

Someone also sells cat and horse models. I bought the pig model to use in a work of art. But then, I also bought the giant Latex fly...

My acupuncture person was disappointed in the pig model, as she said it only had the more basic points, but she pretty much rattled off which point did what, going back along the spine of Piggy.

To keep myself out of trouble, "acupuncture works" is my opinion, and does not apply as factual for the general population. It is also my "opinion" that the large latex zombie is far too expensive at $89. I stand by that statement and will not soften. The large latex toad however, I view as a bargain.
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UTC quote
Re: metal mickey
T5bitsa69 wrote:
that sounds wierd .... i have 10 piercings all over my bod and none of them seem to effect any muscle not even the one in my muscle

might have to try this on our lass and see if it works... she dont have a navel one but anywhere willl work right ??
Ok NOW I want pics......
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