Modern Vespa

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view/20100829doctors_death_draws_scooter_scrutiny/

Once again it is the old, "two wheel riding = asking for trouble" conjecture.

How about addressing the "famous aggressive Boston drivers" instead?

Any one ride in Boston or the surrounding area care to comment?

If you live in an "aggressive" driver area, do you ride and if so, do you feel you are responsible for taking the risk?

Does riding in an "risky" area equate to something like hikers who climb dangerous mountains and then poop happens and they die, get injured or have to be rescued? So if a court case does follow, would the jury be more likely to dismiss the charges because the scooterist knew the risks?

To me, with the Anita Zaffke, case as well as other cases, it seems the prevalent result is that the rider is held partly if not totally responsibly for their own injuries, because they assumed the risk by just riding 2 wheels.

It is this mindset instead of the, "4-wheel drivers need to assume more care and awareness while driving" that perplexes me, why is this not the prevalent outcome?

I am probably beating a dead horse with this post, especially in this community. But it just seems to be leaning "that way".

BTW, I am still going out riding today and will continue to commute on my scooter.

BELK so true. I think if one rides a PTW you are more aware of them when your driving in your car. A few weeks ago i was riding in Honolulu and i saw this souped up black Honda weaving in and out of traffic. Somehow i got past him and i'm at a light and this guy on a Suzuki pulls up along side of me looking white as a ghost. Apparently the Honda almost killed him when he was cutting in and out of lanes. We chatted (long light) and i said that i know it can't be done but everyone should have to ride a scooter to get their driver's license and then they would see what we have to deal with. You could throw a PTW into the actual driving test and have the person who is gonna pass or fail you see how you react to them. Sadly it's one of those if you don't ride them you don't get it and how frickin huge some of the Suv and trucks are these days.

I would like to see riding a PTW for a year be a prerequisite for getting a license to drive anything else. The survivors will be more cautious.

They did say he was on an electric scooter, was it one of those large
electric scooters or a small bicycle type? I have driven in Boston and
their traffic is no worse then L.A. traffic, we all just need to keep an eye
on the cars all around us. One other thing, take the buds out of your ears
and listen to the traffic around you. 8)

That is one of the most reasonable things you have said. I am giving you a karma bump.

A someone who rides in a city full of notoriously aggressive drivers, riders, walkers, etc., I think that riders have to assume responsibility for the risks of riding, at least in a practical sense, if not necessarily a moral one. Two obvious rationales for this are:

1. It is the rider who most likely will suffer the consequences of an accident, regardless of who is at fault. Since this is pretty well recognized, that indicates a greater assumption of risk by those who nevertheless choose to ride.
2. For the most part, we can only control our own choices. It is certainly true that "4-wheel drivers SHOULD assume more care and awareness while driving," but that is a far cry from actually making that happen. What we can do, however, is make our own choices about how we prevent the failure of others to drive carefully from hurting us.

In my years of riding in NYC, I've been hit by a car once, come very close to being hit a few other times, been cut off more times than I can count, and have many friends who have had the same experience, including quite a few who suffered much worse injuries than I did when I was hit. We all know the dangers that the road presents. If I were unwilling to take that risk, I simply wouldn't ride. But I am willing to take the risks, so I see it as my choice and my responsibility.

Brendan

I have lived in Boston (5 yrs) and spent many years on the West Coast including considerable driving in and around LA. I sure agree that drivers are worse in Boston. Partly because of the condition of the streets and the prevalence of traffic rotaries, but the drivers certainly seem more agressive to me. Every single car has two or three large dents. Nobody even bothers to fix them as it is like bumper cars around town. The only place I have driven (short of some places in Europe and Asia) that I thought was worse was Montreal. I was run off a bridge approach by 4 nuns in a Renault!

Did anyone read any of the comments? They are priceless. Here are a few gems. It seems these people think that they are entitled to something, which isn't really new considering we are in the US. The comments pretty much reflect every part of the country, I would think.

"Bicycles and mopeds should be confined to the sidewalks. Most of them do not obey the rules of the road, scooting through red lights and stop signs etc."

As far as not obeying traffic laws, this urks me no matter what the mode of transportation, car, PTW, bicycle, or feet. The ones here obey the laws, but I am not familiar with Boston. Having vehicles, bicycles and mopeds, on the sidewalk with walking people is ludicrous. The speed differential is too great. However, that's sometimes part of the problem on the road too.


"Maybe fewer people will ride these death traps now? There is no space in Boston to ride safely. This is tragic."

"This was a preventable tragedy. Scooter drivers have to be super aware of their surroundings, & drive defensively, instead of recklessly & dangerously, as I witness too many times on the roadways. How many times do we witness people driving these machines with headphones on, oblivious to what is going on in their immediate surroundings on the road. These scooters are deadly serious machines, not toys to drive around on in a half-baked fashion."

I had to reread this one, because I thought he talking about the car drivers that I usually see. How many frickin' scooters are there in Boston for people to have seen so many bad examples? Doesn't MA have helmet laws? Then how are they seeing people with headphones on?


"There is no way possible for the heavier automobiles and trucks to coexist safely on our roads and streets with the lighter bicycles, scooters and motorcycles. It just is not possible."

Obviously has never been anywhere outside the US.

This appears to be a "Zeco" electric scooter. It says they are made in Germany It says it will do 50kmh or about 30mph.



http://www.oneshift.com/articles/article.php?artid=445

Riding an electric scooter poses a greater risk because they are silent.

Period.

Don't want to argue with you... but I will... The only greater risk is the scooter vs. pedestrian or animal danger as far as I can tell.. I would say there is no more risk versus autos - they can't hear a scooter if they are driving next to you over the sound of their own motors... Just a thought.

Desi B.

But it makes them great for drive-bys.

Vespas aren't exactly loud enough to fit into the "loud pipes save lives" category either.

When was the last time anyone narrowly averted disaster because you heard another car's running engine before the horn was honked?

Cars hit each other on a regular basis. Rear enders are an epidemic. However what is a minor bingle to a car driver where they just exchange details can be a fatality to a motor cyclist. What I am trying to say is they cant be trusted to see and avoid another car so you are wasting your time thinking they will see your Vespa. In every traffic flow are the following people

Drug users both legal and illegal.
Many people are on medications that reduce concentration and awareness
Alcoholics who drink every day
Vision impaired people who have not been diagnosed
Vision impaired who have been diagnosed but still drive cause they wont give it up
People who have just broken up with their lover and are driving through a wall of grief
People who just got fired, raped, went bankrupt etc etc
People suffering mental illness
People in clinical depression who want to die and spend part of the drive considering which tree to drive into
Sick people, maybe just a cold or flu maybe diabetes, maybe brain tumour
Elderly people with a combination of hearing, sight, mental and reaction impairment from 10 to 90%
Young drivers with a few hours of experience
People listening to high volume music
People who have just come from a country where donkey is the transport
and people who are just pricks who hate scooters

Then there is you. A vulnerable bag of organs and water surrounded by a protective layer of skin a few millimetres thick riding a Vespa serenely through this soup of humanity operating 200 hp 2 tonne metal monsters.

But hey danger is an aphrodisiac. Race home and celebrate survival by having a bottle of red and throw a leg over the significant other.

Yeah I saw this on the local news yesterday. Sad situation.
Of course we need to be more careful just as a Bull fighter needs to be more careful than someone milking a cow. We try to mitigate the dangers to an acceptable level an just hope we don't get in a jam we can't get out of.

I don't buy the argument that the rider was asking for it. Asking for it is dousing yourself with gasoline then lighting up a cigarette.

Every time that Boston drivers are criticized I do like to go to their defense. Maybe because I'm just plain difficult.

Boston drivers look dangerous to the uninitiated but once you understand what they are doing it all makes sense. Factoid: For many years Massachusetts has has the lowest traffic fatality rate in the states. This is due to drivers following house rules, great hospitals to put us back together again, bad roads that won't allow you to go fast enough to get killed and the highest per capita dope smokers in the nation driving way slow. Peace out.

Yes, I do think this is bad news.... But....

I'm currious if this guy had any type of riding experience, was wearing a helmet, and had insurance?

It's unfortunate, but many people hop on these things with the mentality of; "it's just a scooter", and think they can't or won't get hurt.

I too am from the Boston area and consider driving in Boston to be an exercise in mind reading and psychology.. I drive like I am a target and am not afraid to lay on my horn to get someone's attention.. I notice that when I am driving my car in Boston, I have been unaware of a scooter to my left rear (blind spot).. scared the hell out of me.. accelerate and get away from there.. We have no idea how this accident happened.. but you have to be aware of your surroundings..always.. I am also amazed at the general lack of proper equipment such as armor in jackets, boots and good full length pants., in Boston.. shorts and tee shirts seem to prevail,, That's absurd and asking for trouble..

Great points Santiago and Noth. My experience has been similar.

It's a dangerous hole to ride in, but once you learn the rules of the road here it's not all that bad.

In reality, I think this city could benefit from more two wheeled vehicles and fewer cars. *caveat*: only if the two wheeled vehicles follow simple safety rules. This extends to bicycles here. I can't tell you how many times I've almost been run over on foot crossing a one way street - I look in the direction traffic can come from, see nothing, and walk, only to have to throw myself out of the way of a jerk on a bicycle who swears at me to look where I'm going. Never mind that he was riding illegally the wrong direction down a one-way street. Similarly, lots of scooter riders on the cheapest crappiest Chinese POS scooter riding without a helmet down curbs and and all sorts of nonsense.

Rant aside, the car drivers here are extremely dangerous to the visitor, but there are certain flows in the traffic you learn and cues when not to pass a car even if it isn't signaling or cues to back off without any brake lights which you just pick up on. Somehow you learn "this guy might be changing lanes in a minute so I'll hold off" and the like. It's hard to explain.

There are lots of instances where drivers truly do something unpredictable and dangerous even for a local rider - honestly, I don't think it's a safe place to ride. BUT, I don't think it's as dangerous as it looks on the surface for someone who is used to riding here. My girlfriend and I always say that the world would be full of much better drivers if they all had to spend 2 months riding nothing but a 50cc scooter around Boston. It really trains you to be alert, cautious, stake your place on the road, indicate your intent to others, and anticipate the moves of others. I'm a better car driver now thanks to having ridden here.

It's really sad to hear the news of this doctor. But it may have positive ripples - that driver and their whole family may be more aware of riders for the rest of their lives. Perhaps others will too. I like to hope that something positive might come out of this for the town. Boston is suffering from a boom in inexperienced PTW riders and a snare of too many car drivers who are used to looking only for other cars. It takes time for a city to learn how to deal with scooters just as it takes time for scooterists to learn how to deal with the city.

I think it's the weed.

Israel certainly qualifies as an 'agressive driver' environment. The carnage on the roads here due to impatience and deliberately aggressive behavior is so bad that the government has recently created an entirely new department and tasked it with trying to change the driving culture.

That said, I rarely go into the big cities on my scoot because I feel too vulnerable. My daily 170+ km round trip commute is mostly through empty areas over well maintained and very sparsely travelled roads. It is the only reason I ever considered becoming a scooter commuter.

This is not to say the cities here aren't full of scooters or that scooters aren't the perfect inner-city transportation solution. They are... and they are!

And since I didn't grow up here, I feel ill-equipped/unwilling to adapt to the kind of riding style one needs in order to survive in the city.

But this knee jerk tendency to point to PTW accidents and condemn their relative vulnerability to injury is akin to blaming rape victims for being vulnerable to attack.

Just as certain members of society are inherently more vulnerable to injury/attack, so too some kinds of vehicles are more vulnerable to their operators being injured in an accident.

But to think you can avoid trouble by telling the vulnerable parties to simply stay home and off the streets is pure crap. The cause of the problem is elsewhere.

[quote="Dooglas"] That strikes a chord. Boston and Montreal do have a lot in common, including architectural styles and driving styles. I commute daily and so far so good. I ride ATTGATT but most scooterists I see don't. You have to behave defensively no matter where you live and ride - full stop.

Interestingly, my second-hand LX150 began life in Boston. I suppose it has an appetite for interesting environments.

Treppenwitz said +1

If you read the comments that is exactly the attitude that seems prevalent on the roads. Might makes right so stay off the road or face the consequences.

The other day a car ran me into opposing traffic by swinging over from the right lane into the left lane where I was riding, as we were approaching a branch in the road with a light. I beeped my horn, and I knew he could hear it since i was right next to him, but he just kept coming. I saw him look right at me.

I ended up in the opposing lane, with my front tire inches from his left rear when he finally stopped, and he only stopped because of the light. Luckily there was no opposing traffic.

I had to walk my scooter backwards and then moved around to his right passenger side in the right lane. I made the WTF shrug at him to which he responded with:

MAKING CRY BABY HANDS UP AT HIS EYES AND WAVING ME OFF!

This idiot nearly kills me and instead of being apologetic he insults me????

I went from angry to white hot rage in 1 second. This is the attitude that I am speaking of. I am quite sure this man would have ran me off the road, or into another vehicle and not spent a moments thought about it.

Quite like "The Cat BIn Lady" He would have commented. "What is the big deal. It was only a scooter."

As a Boston rider this happens all the time especially with cab's (or maybe i just notice it more frequently)

Usually the drivier is apologetic but even if they say they are sorry, by the flippant response.. "oh sorry", or "oh, I didn't see you" (while I was on my cell and not signaling)
I dont think they realize they just had someone's life in their hands and the gravity that the situation carries.

I too live and ride in Boston...well actually I live in the same town that the Doctor lived in Newton and commute the same route as the accident. I've probably passed or travelled along with the victim many times.

Ironically, I consider the scene of this accident to be one of the tamer parts of my commute. Xfrog is correct. You really do have to develop a sixth sense and know that the only thing to expect is the unexpected. That goes for scooters as well. Because of our registration laws, different catagories of "scooters" have different rules of operation which I think adds to the confusion among motorists. They don't understand why I "own" my lane and operate in the same manner as a car, when the scooter next to me can pass on the right and drive in the bike lane. And we just have a lot of aggressive and seemingly angry drivers in Boston. So when the scooter riding in front of them is percieved to be "holding them up" getting to the red light and then passes all the stopped cars in the bike lane to get out in front... well that just adds to the anomosity. I've recently tried to see if I could build some goodwill for scooters by being more considerate about letting someone merge in or waving on a driver trying to make a turn out of s driveway. But even that cuts both ways as it that act of consideration seems to anger the dreive behind me.

Still no details on the circumstances which also seems to be par for the course. Some on here may recall the death of Marcia Kearney on July 8th when, while riding her Vespa she was struck and killed by and retired Harvard law professor., That accident occured within two miles of Friday's and still no report issued and best I can tell no charges made.

Finally in regards to the comments on the article, keep in mind that it is the Boston Herald, which I would venture to say has a disportionate number of those aggressive and angry drivers amongs it's readership. But it is true that the tendancy is to blame the victim vs an outcry to make the roads safer.

I learned to drive in Italy, and got my US driver license in Boston, so very little scares me, but now that I ride a scoot (even in a land of fairly well-behaved drivers), I have to say that being proactively anxious in traffic is just a basic tool of survival.

My impression is that most drivers simply do not understand what it means to be riding on two wheels, and I know (and even my wife has noticed) that I have changed my own driving style around MCs to leave more buffer and give more ample warning of my intentions.

Case in point, yesterday I was stuck on a one-lane road behind a car going well below speed limit (30 in a 35 zone). A fool starts tailgating me in his CR-V, I flash my brakes, he backs off and then comes close again. Then the road widens on a downhill, and as I shift to the left side of the lane to enter a curve, the idiot puts his front side right next to me, just a few feet away from my right cowl! I gesture him to back off, and he does, and as we stop at a light at the bottom of the hill, I lift my visor and tell him he should never come that close to a cycle. His answer was "Come on, there was plenty of space!".

He didn't seem like a jerk, just utterly unaware of the risk even a minor impact can have for a motorcycle.

I think as soon as I knew I had a tailgater behind me, I would welcome the first opprtunity to just let him pass. I would always rather be behind someone like that rather than in front of them.

Of course, but I didn't have a chance to do that until the light. What's worse is that the guy could obviously perfectly see the slow-moving car in front of me, so it's not like he could have gone any faster even after grinding me to a pulp under his wheels.

http://www.boston.com/yourtown/news/newton/2010/10/retired_harvard_professor_cite.html

Retired Harvard professor cited in fatal Vespa crash
E-mail|Link|Comments (8) Posted October 13, 2010 01:33 PM
E-mail this article To: Invalid email address Add a personal message: Your e-mail: Invalid email address

Sending your articleYour article has been sent. By Katrina Ballard, Globe Correspondent

A retired Harvard Law School professor whose car allegedly struck and killed a woman riding a motor scooter in Newton last summer has been cited with motor vehicle homicide, prosecutors said today.

Detlev Vagts, 81, of Cambridge was cited in the July 9 collision on Ward Street that resulted in the death of Marcia Kearney, 54, of Northampton, the Middlesex district attorney's office said in a statement.

1. Note license plate
2. Dial "911"
3. Report suspicious "drunken driver" swerving all over the road, vehicle make, model, color and plate #
4. Scoot safely onward

Glad you survived, Belkwinith!

Thanks for the update Santiago.

I feel bad for everyone involved, but maybe if there are serious repercussions for inattentiveness and generally dangerous driving, some people might take driving more seriously. I can dream I guess, right

Wow, read some of the comments: Holy CRAP! Some people are IGNUNT!

Buckeroo1968 wrote:
A Vespa is not a vehicle that should be on the road, regardless of this man's age or driving. It's a go-cart without protection, and if you choose to ride this ridiculous form of transportation, well, then...sorry she passed because she chose to ride on this monstrosity-is it not enough to look out for cars, motorcycles, bicycles and all, but now we are supposed to look out for glorified mopeds? Cannot wait for more concern about the scooters that are all the rage now, especially in downtown Boston where untrained tourists have them rented to them, even as the creator's body decays after going off a cliff recently. Enough already...

At least some of the posters took this J-hole to task for his lame comments.

I hope we can continue to follow this accident like we have followed Astrid Gunter's. Perhaps by keeping the communities eye on this we can get a measure of justice in the end. Note the italics are intentional.

Edit: Another useful link.

http://middlesexda.com/news/press-release.php?reference=130

This has got to be wrong. WTF was this guy doing (Spelling mistakes corrected)

"It is alleged the defendant hit the victim from behind and struck the rear left side of the victim's Vespa(sp) with the right side of his front passenger side bumper. The impact of the collision threw the victim from her Vespa(sp). She was located approximately 82 feet from the collision location."

Was he passing her on the left, even though she was in the left-most lane? He must have been all the way over the center line to do that. Man, you really have to watch your rear. I would never expect anything like that. I do try to avoid left turns if I can help it, especially unprotected ones. It's hard to look for a clearing in front and watch your rear, but you have to do it. Poor woman. She didn't have much chance though.

That commenter is an ignorant f**k. She had a GT200. That's a big scooter, not some little toy moped or electric bicycle. It sounds like he's just not capable of driving and should have his license revoked.

Sad situation. Sad little people

Exactly! She was licensed, plated and insured. And while she was a 20 year motorcycle enthusiast, none of that will help you at all when you have an inattentive driver coming up on your rear!! Commentor is indeed a J***ass

Wow - how sad. I am super paranoid about people coming fast up my ass at lights because so many people are driving while texting, etc. I usually start manually blinking my break light and put myself into a position where I can pull forward so that a rear-ender strikes the car in front of me instead, but the situation that is the most difficult is where the driver is going to turn and comes up real fast only to go into another lane at the last minute - you hope, or you hope with enough room. Kind of like what may have happened here.

Agreed! I think that making a left turn with any vehicle behind us is the most dangerous scenario.

I've taken to pulling over to the right hand shoulder until there is no one behind me, because even if they don't reared end my they pass dangerously close on the right

Wise observation.
Clearly, we need to ban any vehicle larger than a smart fortwo.
It's the only rational solution.

-Rusty
'09 LX150S

I don't want to sound like one of those people who wants to toss anyone over 65 off the roads because I certainly don't feel that way. I personally know several people who are over 75 who are sharper on the road than many people my age (and who drive with a careful maturity that is lacking in most young drivers).

That being said, this guy sounds like the very definition of a person who was no longer equipped to handle all of the requirements of operating a motor vehicle.

Needless to say I don't have nearly enough information available to me to make such a judgement, but his own statement, that he 'got lost driving his wife to the dentist'... well, IMHO someone who could get so confused on so routine a journey that they end up in the oncoming traffic lane and rear ends someone making a lawful turn... should probably have retired their license long ago.

The sad part is that most of us would not know when to pull the plug on our driving days, and would probably wait until a family member or close friend sat us down for a heart-to-heart before hanging up the keys.

The lesson I take from this tragic story is that we need to be wise enough that when people we love get to the point where they might become a danger to themselves or others on the road... it is our job to initiate such a heart-to-heart talk and help them make the transition from driver to passenger with their dignity intact.

I emailed the DA's office to see if I could get updates.

Also If he was lost why was he going fast enough to throw the victim 82 feet upon impact. Most drivers when they are lost slow way down looking for street signs.

In the end an, old guy, not drunk who kills one of us will not receive any real punishment.

BTW good point about taking away the drivers who think we are not safe on the road!

While you are at it, maybe you would request the police report