Modern Vespa

Interesting article here arguing we should not ride with our high beams on in the day time for more visability.
http://twowheelsoapbox.com/?p=26

Made me think.

I'm sure I've read in depth arguments of that ilk on this site before, and I agree.

Headlight modulators wouldn't be a good idea over here, though, even if they were legal.

Huh. An interesting take on the topic. Thanks.

It is interesting, but I am not sure it applies to every bright on every PTW. The Vespa light is not very useful on regular setting alone to gain visibility. I can attest to this from experience as a viewer, not a rider. I do agree about headlight modulators though; however, it seems that not all of them work correctly on Vespas. The state of Texas motorcycle literature encourages the use of high beams, so I don't think it's illegal here. Anyway, the cops never give tickets here for improper usage of lights, even if you drive without them at night

I have heard a lot of the people on the board from the UK complain about bright usage at all, but even during the day. I can see that, because of their climate. However, here it is usually blindlingly sunny. In fact, I often get blinded by the light sun shining off of cars. I don't think my high beams can compete with that, so I am pretty sure that I am not blinding anyone.

Interesting. Although the article was a few years old, I went ahead and left a comment showing the Federal law that headlight modulators are legal in all US States and Canadian Provinces.

I have one and love it. Usually only use it on a dual carriageway when it's rammed and I'm filtering between two lanes of slow moving traffic. It's like parting the Red Sea.

Comparing the headlights on my Vespa to the Burgman is like night and day. I'm sure larger cycles could "blind " you but not my GT 200 thats for sure. I have a modulator on the Vespa and I really like it.
I do have a hi viz jacket that may blind some oncoming traffic though, YES its really that bright---same color as a yellow highlighter

just sayin.......

Aye? I suppose I hadn't looked at it that way. I just had visions of people firing out of junctions and making turns ahead of you, but that's not so likely on a D/C.

Although [*2nd hand story alert!*] one of the instuctors that escorted me to one of my tests [*warned you...*] said he'd been taken out on the M8 by someone changing lanes into him while filtering. Apparently the driver had seen his light "flash" in his offside mirror due to the bike rocking back and forth under the braking/acceleration and thought it was a car letting him into the fast lane.

Perhaps a modulator pulsing more regularly would look less like someone letting you out and, as mentioned in the article, might suggest emergency vehicle and wake folk up a bit.

Awake. That's definitely a state to be promoted in Motorway drivers.

So are they legal here? Or just subtle enough?

Also, Sonia, I see your point about the bright sunshine and poor Vespa headlights, but I still think the effect applies.

No. Not legal. Not subtle either. It certainly doesn't resemble flashing at all, the modulation is far too fast. It's not like police lights either, but close enough to make people wake up. I hate filtering between slow moving lanes of traffic and would rather sit at 20mph than filter. But any slower, then I will.

The author of the article is entitled to his opinion............But, he's wrong. If you live in the USA or Canada, the smartest thing you can do is to purchase a headlight modulaor. They work when the hig beam is on and it's not dark. If you don't want to install a modulator, then ride with your high beam. You WILL be more visible. Just because the author perceived the high beam like he did doesn't mean that the overwhelming majority of people will also perceive it the way he did. I have not ever perceived a PTW approaching me with the high beam on the way the author did. Leave your high beam on.

Jimc and I had a chat with the guys from California about this one. I suspect it is more due to sunny days. If we were to drive around with high beams on we would be constantly flashed at by cagers for dazzling them. Not to mention being pulled by the law, as dazzling other road users by day or night, is an offence. Main beam does dazzle, even in daytime. European motorcylcists don't use them on the whole by day, even in Italy.

Mind you I'm committing an offence by using a modulator, but I only use it in certain circumstances.

Old news from here, but I am reminded within a few blocks of how traffic is behaving around me that my modulator is not on. I turn it on and the difference is astounding, and immediate!

Invest in a headlight modulator. They are worth it. I've seen cars pull over when they saw me coming--must have thought I was an emergency vehicle or police. Drivers have gotten out of their cars to tell me my lights are flashing. I followed my wife with my modulator on and she complained that it was very irritating--so when I'm in traffic following a car I usually turn the headlight modulator off. But when I'm on the road by myself or the first in line, I keep the modulator on so oncoming traffic sees me.

I've read a lot of posts about how inconsiderate cagers are to scooters. I've had my scooter for 2 years and I haven't had any problems with cars pulling out in front of me or running me off the road. I don't usually ride during rush hours, though, and that probably helps.

There have been problems with modulators working on some scooters. XLR8 and I can tell you that Kisan did a good job of getting their modulator to work on our scooters.

Oh, Japan is about to win the Little League World Series.

I haven't come across the problems the author of the article states as a driver or a rider but would take the opposite stance. The one and only time I have come across a modulating headlight posed more of a problem in identifying the motorcycle than if they would have only had a high beam on.

To me it came across kind of like an infomercial. They are saying there is a problem, why it is a problem, they know a solution to the problem and finally suggest you take an action. They don't say to buy a specific brand but to buy a modulator, but recommend an action.

I know for me if I would buy one it wouldn't be from reading this but from talking with more experienced riders who used it and recommended it or after researching it from to me more reputable resources.

Amen to that. Saved my bacon many, many times.

I have modulators on all my bikes. The difference in the way drivers react to me is very noticeable. Cars dont make left turns in front of me nearly as much as they used to before I installed the modulators.

Just how much of an experienced rider are you looking for an opinion from? I've ridden over 750,000 miles during 41 years of riding PTW's with no mishaps. Do I meet your standards? Just asking since I highly endorse the use of a headlight modulator or running your headlight on high beam during the daytime. I know other long-term riders who agree with my humble opinion.

Quebec DMV (SAAQ) firmly believes they are not, in spite of federal vehicle regulations that say they are. [/quote]

Ah maybe using North Dakota as a frame of reference in a discussion with riders in locations with more traffic on a side street than the freeway through Fargo is nearsighted?

I may not have been the most clear in what I was trying to say, I was referencing the modulator not the use of high beams. I will use high beams and do agree with the use to increase visibility, the way I read the article was that you should use a modulator instead of high beams. The use of the modulator was what I was trying to say I would want to research more since I have had very limited exposure and knowledge of modulating headlights.

Looking at your prior post and not knowing you, how would I know what your experience is? After you said what your experience is, yes I would take your recommendation more seriously. Even though I didn't quote you before I wasn't trying to dismiss anyone's opinions just to state my own.

The riders that I have ridden with, most I would look to their advice and recommendations. I don't remember off hand how many years or miles some of them have ridden other than that most have been over at least 10 years, I do look to them for advice since I am still a relative new comer to riding. I at least have been able to talk to them and see where they come from and hear about their experiences while riding.

Aren't you jumping to a conclusion about where I may or may not have ridden? Just because I list my location as North Dakota, it doesn't mean a thing.

IMHO...we first need to insure that regardless of which form of illumination you are using (incadescent, HID, Projection) that we take precaution in properly aligning the illumination of said beam in a manner that will provide you the proper illumination (your visibility). As well as proper visibility (of you) by those around you while still not bliding them as well.

With that in mind I would then select to choose an apporpriate headlight beam setting.

For me it's...high beam daylight riding (visibility of self)...low beam night riding (visibility of self and my own ability to see adequately).

Note: Have recently finish the retrofitting of a Projection unit in my GT200 and will be posting results as well a a DIY write up. The results of using a High Intgensity Discharge (HID) bulb and a properly alighed Projection unit to control said beam was dramatic. It also offered an excellent balance of of the aforemention (visibility and safety) without blinding any on coming drivers.

bulldog89: If you ride your scooter equipped with a headlight modulator for several weeks, you will probably never ride a scooter or motorcycle again without one. How auto drivers react to a scooter/motorcycle that is equipped with a modulator is like the difference between night and day when compared to only having a normal headlight. I have never spoken with or read a post by anyone on a scooter or motorcycle forum who had actually ridden with a headlight modulator who didn't notice a marked difference in how autos noticed and reacted to them and I've never read where anyone removed their modulator after riding with it for just a couple of weeks. I have read posts where people who have never ridden their scooter or motorcycle with a modulator attempted to tell others how the modulator didn't do it's job or caused auto drivers to go blind, etc, etc etc. There's a very good reason why the modulator companies stay in business and it's because their products work well and keep riders safer than they would be with a normal headlight.

I am not taking any sides in the discussion, but other than anecdotal endorsements, is there any empirical evidence pertaining to modulators or riding with high beams on during the day?

If such evidence exists, it would be good to post links to it. If the benefits are empirically proven, then we would have something more compelling than individual anecdotes to convince as many people as possible to install modulators.

Aviator47: I've searched for scientific studies that have been done on headlight modulators and I can't find any. A couple of pages suggested that none had ever been done.

The only scientific studies that I could find relate to the following:

*The Hurt Report findings significantly advanced the state of knowledge of the causes of motorcycle accidents, in particular pointing out the widespread problem of car drivers failing to see an approaching motorcycle and precipitating a crash by violating the motorcyclist's right-of-way.

*The MAIDS report tends to support most of the Hurt Report findings, for example that "69% of the OV [other vehicle] drivers attempted no collision avoidance maneuver," suggesting they did not see the motorcycle.

Based on my own personal experience, I rode for almost 39 years without a modulator and after I installed them on our scooters and my motorcycle, I immediately noticed a difference in how many fewer automobiles would pull out in front of me from driveways, parking lots and intersections. When riding on a multi-lane road, other drivers are much more aware that I am there and rarely change lanes and cut me off vs a much higher incidence of this behavior when I didn't have the modulator. I have always ridden with my bright lights on and to me, this is the next best thing if you don't want to install a modulator. In your case, I am assuming that they are not allowed in Greece? Anyway, this is the only info that I have ever been able to find.

*BTW: I don't own any stock in any headlight modulator company. If someone doesn't want to install a modulator, I really don't care one way or the other. I'm just attempting to pass along a personal experience with a particular type of product. I am an advocate of "live an let live" and not pushing any type of agenda.

XLR8

There is no doubt that many drivers don't see PTWs, and in fact, aren't even looking for us.

Here's an interesting piece of post mishap information I ran across:


Headlight operation
........ Of the 954 control drivers randomly surveyed during the day, 719 (75%) had their headlight turned on-609 (64%) on low beam setting and 92 (10%) on high beam, with 18 (2%) unsure whether high or low beam was used. Overall, voluntary use of headlight in daytime was associated with a 27% lower risk of crash related injury (multivariate odds ratio 0.73, 0.53 to 1.00).

Well said Al.

Thanks for posting Fuzzy. Interesting read and had never heard of the Canadian and British naval experiments with Active Camouflage.

As for actual studies on modulating headlights I have seen referenced in articles studies by the AMA(can't find) and The Institute for Highway Safety (august 1981 issue of AM, but I can't find it either). http://books.google.com/books?id=PfsDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA78&lpg=PA78&dq=modulating+headlights+study&source=bl&ots=SoSLNIBdLB&sig=3pJs79QVNjFUCgXyyeBbRaz1kr0&hl=en&ei=eaV7TOSfO4GBlAeYqdDsCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCEQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=modulating%20headlights%20study&f=false

Thanks for the link, Sticky. Pretty interesting that it's been 29 years since that article was published, yet no definitive research about mishap reduction rates.

I did appreciate that the New Zealand paper said that headlight use was "associated with" rather than "caused" fewer injury mishaps. Sound semantics.

No doubt.

Excellent question. Here's your answer:

Torrez LI. MOTORCYCLE CONSPICUITY: THE EFFECTS OF AGE AND VEHICULAR DAYTIME RUNNING LIGHTS. PhD dissertation submitted to the University of Central Florida, 2008. (pdf link, click!) All emphasis in quoted sections below is mine unless explicitly noted. This dissertation, which I just found now thanks to Google Scholar, is a fantastic resource for safety-hounds.

Literature review with regard to daytime use of high-beam headlights, low-beam headlights (DRLs), and headlight modulators: Literature review with regard to fluoro and hi-viz gear, including reflectivity and the chevron pattern: Experimental data and conclusions involving age, modulators/no modulators, and motorcycle conspicuity: My conclusions/long-form Cliffs Notes:

1. There exists much epidemiological evidence that DRLs and daytime high-beam usage reduces accident rates, but this type of study is confounded by selection bias (ie, people who wear hi-viz are safer than those who wear wife beaters).
2. There also exists experimental and basic science evidence that shows that DRLs, high-beam usage, fluoro/hi-viz, and the chevron pattern are detected quicker and more reliably, especially in marginal conditions.
3. Old people have measurably slower reaction times, and this difference is significant enough to make the difference between turning in front of you vs. hitting the brakes. Unfortunately, headlight modulators do not "fix" this problem of old people.
4. Headlight modulators do not show a benefit above DRLs alone in the dissertation above, but in more urban/congested/poor lighting scenarios they might have a benefit.

You can draw your own conclusions from all the above, but I've already drawn mine as illustrated below:

Good find Toshi.

My empirical evidence (valid only for myself) is that when I see a modulated headlight out on the road, I notice it with a startling and absolute suddenness.

Further, the noticeability of blinking lights vs. static ones is fairly well established, and is widely used in places where getting the attention of drivers is critical.

I'm convinced.

Yeah I have to say that I also notice them sooner...especially when they approach from the rear. I am always wondering if I should be pulling over.

Really good discussion. Great input from Aviator47, Toshi and others. Science rather than lore should guide us.

I'd like to add that the article originally cited states that daytime high-beam use is illegal. This is not true everywhere. I'm no lawyer, but Washington State's laws on high/low beam appear to apply only during times/conditions where lights are _required_ on cages. See below.

My own subjective observations are that great hi-beams increase visibility. From my riding experience, especially people starting to make a left in front of me in heavy traffic, I believe that I'm seen _much_ better on my Majesty (super-bright dual 55/60W halogen headlights) than on my GTS. Not suggesting that we should all ride Majesties - just my observations on the value of bright lights.

--------------------

Revised Code of Washington (RCW) § 46.37.230. Use of multiple-beam road-lighting equipment

(1) Whenever a motor vehicle is being operated on a roadway or shoulder adjacent thereto during the times specified in RCW 46.37.020, the driver shall use a distribution of light, or composite beam, directed high enough and of sufficient intensity to reveal persons and vehicles at a safe distance in advance of the vehicle, subject to the following requirements and limitations:

* Whenever a driver of a vehicle approaches an oncoming vehicle within five hundred feet, such driver shall use a distribution of light, or composite beam, so aimed that the glaring rays are not projected into the eyes of the oncoming driver. The lowermost distribution of light, or composite beam, specified in RCW 46.37.220(2) shall be deemed to avoid glare at all times, regardless of road contour and loading.

* Whenever the driver of a vehicle approaches another vehicle from the rear within three hundred feet such driver shall use a distribution of light permissible under this chapter other than the uppermost distribution of light specified in RCW 46.37.220(1).

---------------------
RCW 46.37.020
When lighted lamps and signaling devices are required.


Every vehicle upon a highway within this state at any time from a half hour after sunset to a half hour before sunrise and at any other time when, due to insufficient light or unfavorable atmospheric conditions, persons and vehicles on the highway are not clearly discernible at a distance of one thousand feet ahead shall display lighted headlights, other lights, and illuminating devices as hereinafter respectively required for different classes of vehicles, subject to exceptions with respect to parked vehicles, and such stop lights, turn signals, and other signaling devices shall be lighted as prescribed for the use of such devices.

The California DMV also officially recommends that motorcycle riders use their high beams in the daytime to increase visibility.

High/low-beam headlight modulation is definitely and unambiguously legal in all 50 states + Canada, even if daytime high-only is a grey area:

http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-technical-articles/Modulator-regs.htm

I have a rear brake modulator and i can tell you people give me a bit more room now that i have it. Maybe just in my mind but anything to make you more noticeable is not a bad thing IMHO. Once i put my rear rack on and loaded it up i noticed that my brake light wasn't as noticeable with stuff on the rack. I put the modulator at the bottom of the plate holder and have no problems being seen with a full load of the rack.

Here is something else to consider. In the United States the DOT has mandated two lighting paradigms with the goal of reducing accidents. The first was Day Time Running lights (DRL) the second was the addition of a third brake lamp in the center of the vehicle (Center High Mount Stop Lamp (CHMSL))

Before the DOT mandated these changes numerous studies were done that showed these would have a significant effect in the reduction in the number of accidents, One of the reasons given is that these changes increased vehicle visibility.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daytime_running_lamp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_brake_light

Initially, both of these changes worked as predicted but once the roads became saturated with vehicles incorporating these changes the accident rates returned to the pre-modification levels. There is a theory that suggests as something becomes more common we humans pay less attention to it, especially if we feel that the it poses no threat to us.

What I am suggesting here is that if all motorcycles and scooters had headlight modulators they would most likely cease to be effective. Thats not to say one should not add such a system to their bike or wear high visibility gear, just that you should continue to ride as if you are invisible. You are no threat to that guy in the SUV, he will notice the scooter the first few dozen times because of the modulators, after that all bets are off.

I do not use my high beam during the day. I do not own a modulator. I have a very different opinion on the whole matter, I will share.

The whole thing boils down to two distinctly different issues for me:

1. Target Fixation - being highly visible is a good thing, being a target is not. The upside to everything mentioned above is that it has the mixed bag of making you more visible. This is fine and dandy, but a driver that is looking AT you may also be fixating on you and your actions.

2. Becoming Unhittable - this is something that is impossible to achieve, but it remains my goal every time I get on the road (bike, car, scooter, motorcycle, foot).

In the case of #1, I want to be just part of the flow of traffic, I really do not want to be an object of more than passing interest to a driver, and that plays into #2.

As a driver/rider/etc it is my job to prevent being in a place where I can be part of an accident. This means a lot of things all at once most of which boil down to looking at every moment and situation and assuming that he drivers around you *will* do the most threatening thing they can to you. When they don't, all is good, but if they do, you are already acting on the potential.

When I see someone that could turn left in front of me, I make sure they have the space to do so on the assumption that they will regardless of my presence. It plays into every aspect of being on the roads. There are few situations that cannot be avoided or prevented with prudent planning, and all of the visibility in the world will not prevent that one driver that doesn't see you from making a bad decision and turning all of your hi-viz efforts into so much scrap.

I know this is counter to how most people approach this, and I understand the disagreement. I think at some point we have all heard the stories of the cars on the side of the road getting hit because a driver fixated on the flashers. All of that said, I feel that I have had an extraordinarily low number of 'close calls' living under the premise that people will make bad decisions on the road, and simply avoiding those risks.

I think it is best illustrated by a fellow rider here at the office. He has near daily stories of near death experiences on two wheels because of the actions of some driver. He is decked out in hi-viz. He rolls with a modulator, uses high beams on bikes that don't have modulators. None of this matters when he rides as he does. I've followed him before. He is unaware that he is in blind spots. He assumes that people see him and rides as if they will grant him the right of way on that assumption. He rides the 'fast' line within his lane, and in my not humble opinion creates more risk through his actions than his hi-viz gear can overcome.

Would hi-viz gear reduce my risk? maybe, but I still feel that the onus is on me the rider. I simply do not have the faith that other drivers care enough about anyone but themselves to make the right decision. This is only reinforced for me when I get passed by a driver that cannot stand being behind a 'scooter' despite my doing 60+ in a 45.

I'm actually in complete agreement. Things which are common tend to become invisible, and there are numerous examples of that. Sticky threads at the top of the forum, for instance.

Motorcycles in the US are required to have the headlight on at all times in order to promote visibility. This worked well until the US mandated daytime running lights, to the point that seeing lights on during the daytime is no longer novel enough to get noticed. Hence the progression to high beams and modulators.

The key, I think, is to be just ahead of the curve and remain novel. I'm working on a headset-mounted fireworks launching platform to use when modulators cease to be effective.