Modern Vespa

+100

After riding for 40 plus years and having used modulators, front and rear, for the past five, I know that it has given me an edge in traffic, empirical evidence or not.

Can't miss it....

In Lower Lumpa, my scoot is the only modulator I've seen out of a few thousand riders seen on scenic byway weekend cruising. I've only seen 3 safety vests and all were on Toreador Pants BMW R1200 riders. It's good to remember the sticky analogy and keep an edge!

Hi Doug , can you buy them in the UK ? or do you have to send to US ? how much ? cheers Bill

In my area, a lot of the Harley crowd are using modulators, front and rear. Also a few high rez jackets and vests are popping up.
I think it is because of the fatalities that have occurred recently, involving motorcycles. In general, if they see you they won t run into you.

+1 (Nail + Head)

Look at this NHTSA report from 2008 Head to the bottom of page 7 top page 8

http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspublic/ContentViewer?objectId=090000648070b5b6&disposition=attachment&contentType=pdf

Take away points "Overall, DRLs seemed to increase daytime Single-PV (passenger vehicle) to Motorcycle crashes." and "It seemed that DRLs were more likely to increase daytime fatal target motorcycle crashes"

and a similar report from the NHTSA from 2004 Page 21

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/809760.PDF

Take away point

"The effectiveness, based on the simple odds, of DRLs in preventing two-vehicle opposite direction
crashes between a passenger vehicle and a motorcycle during daylight is estimated to be 23.2 percent
with (p = 0.065).
Passenger vehicle type may influence the effectiveness of DRLs. To examine this issue, vehicle types
were included in the logistic fit of the data. The results are similar. The effectiveness, based on the
simple odds, of DRLs in preventing two-vehicle opposite direction crashes between a passenger vehicle
and a motorcycle during daylight is estimated to be 22.6 percent with (p = 0.074) when adjusting for
vehicle type."

What a difference over four years

Mark-

I think the reference article pertains to Daytime Running Lights installed on cars.

Indeed!

Yes. The conclusion Mark and I are coming to, though, is that DRLs on cars increases motorcycle accidents.

Tosh...thanks for the researched data...thumbs up...I got the high beam on during daylight, HI-viz vets (all the time) and the reflective chevron stripes...never thought about it...

But only compared to cars without DRLs. If habituation to DRLs were an issue, all car drivers should be equally affected, regardless of whether their car has DRLs or not.

At most, this would seem to suggest that MC riders tend to get into accidents with cars with DRLs more often than with cars without DRLs, which might have to do with a) difficulty to accurately estimate distances from DRL-equipped vehicles, or b) target fixation. But to be frank, to me both set of results seem simply inconclusive because of lack of statistical significance.

Exactly

It's like weapons escalation, the more you do, the more the other guys does. No one really wins. In the end, it still comes back to rider skill and preparation, and assuming you aren't going to be seen.

Correct, having a modulator is no reason to let any guard down!

I had a professor that would march to school every morning carrying an airhorn in his hand, waiting to use it on cars that didn't give him proper right of way- I remember thinking, what an asshole. For some reason i'm conflicted when it comes to flashing lights, not that it's quite the same, and especially not that y'all are assholes, but i'm not sure of the point at which "my" safety would be overly burdensome to the 99% of the public who wouldn't have hit me anyway. Does anyone else have this reservation?

All it takes is one asshole in a car to ruin your day.............or your life. Ride with a modulator for a month and then see if you think that it doesn't have a large effect on the cagers on your regular path of travel.

Habituation in general is definitely an issue.

My good friend, Dr. James McKnight, who used to be president of the Public Safety Research Institute and a consultant to the Motorcycle Safety Foundation, once did a study on the effectiveness of the auxiliary high-mounted brake lights shortly after they were mandated on cars. The findings were that the lights were very effective initially, but once drivers became habituated to them they were no more effective than the traditional lights alone.

I have, I did not notice a difference, but I think that was a reset of how I ride normally. I rarely have an issue with people doing unexpected things around me.

I knew someone was going to say almost exactly that, and I'm personally convinced the modulator would make a big difference, but my question is more philosophic- I'm not sure where to draw the line between prevention and preventative over-aggression? I'm the one choosing to drive an inherently dangerous vehicle, does that give me the right to have flashing lights? I'm not talking about the "legal" right, which is why i say it's philosophic. Think about this- should people who drive Lamborhinis be able to have modulators because they have more to loose financially in an accident?

Choosing to ride something that's dangerous is a choice, choosing to drive something expensive is a choice too; I don't think modulators should be illegal, i'm just wondering if i'm the only one that has a problem with riding around flashing everyone all the time just because i'm choosing to be uncaged?
(and I think I'm also making the assumption that most people subconsciously think "emergency vehicle" when they first catch sight of the modulated lights, which is what makes it feel over-aggressive to me)

For many years, I thought about installing a modulaor but didn't for that very reason. A couple of years ago, after becoming very frustrated with people pulling out in front of me, giving me almost no time to brake before hitting them, I bought one modulaor and installed it on one of our scooters. the number of cars pulling out of driveways, parking lots, cross street etc. dropped dramatically so I installed them on our other scooter and my motorcycle. In the two years that they have been installed, no one has given us the finger, rolled down their window and cursed at us or shown any signs of anger towards us because we were riding behind them or coming towards them. We have a lot of rural, two lane roads around here and people are especially notorious for pulling out in front of other cars and PTW's. I still have the problem when driving my car but now, it is a rare occurence when anyone pulls out when we're on a scooter or a motorcycle. Many times since installing the modulators, we will see a car race up to the intersection of a side street where they are supposed to stop and instead they do a rolling stop but when they catch the modulator out of the corner of their eye, we see the front end of their car dive down due to them slamming on their brakes. Personally, I will never own another PTW without a modulator. They're cheap and easy to install. YMMV

Jess said
" I'm working on a headset-mounted fireworks launching platform to use when modulators cease to be effective."


Jess. My system of handlebar mounted fireworks, although directed downwards (To leap the scoot over an obstacle) has clearly and illegally been copied by you. I require you to immediately pay my licensing fee or face my wrath. My people will be in touch with your people on this.

Glad to know it's keeping you safe out there XLR8, my recklessness must be doing the same thing- at least it makes people think twice about pulling out in front of me anyway...

Which is the very reason that the UK guvmint is still opposing their universal use on cars, thank goodness.

A practical question: I tried to install a Co-Imagination modulator on my GTS 250 Super about 1 1/2 years ago. It never worked right. At idle, it flashed properly, but as soon as any throttle was given, the flashing became faster until at about 15 mph or more it was continuous. The maker of the product told me that my electrical system (alternator) must be bad. I never got a refund, because my local shop had slightly cut into a wire by being too aggressive with zip ties... Next time I'll install myself.

So my question is, is the Kissan rock solid for the GTS 250 Supers? Or some other brand? I'm aware that the GTS is noisy electrically.

I did have a guy complain that the modulator was, "really irritating, I could see you coming blocks away...", DOH!

Since I have jumped into the modulator brawl in the past I was just sitting aside and letting others carry the flag this time...until now. It is evident that some of those arguing against the modulators either haven't seen them or don't understand exactly what they do.

By Federal law* the modulators alternate the light from 100% brightness down to 17% or more brightness 240 times a minute (+/- 40). The appearance to oncoming cars is not that of flashing but more of a flickering. Some older Harleys seem to have loosely mounted headlights that bob up and down a little with road vibration and seem to flicker from a distance. That kind of thing is what you see.

The Federal law goes on to state that there must be a method to prevent the use at night; therefore the sky sensor. You couldn't run them at night if you wanted to. And you can turn them off at will, by switching down to low beams.

I can't quote the research, but years ago I read an article about them stating that they are the result of research by either NASA or the Air Force looking for the most effective way of making a viewer look at a visual target. That is where the rate and mode of modulation came from. They were originally developed not for motorcycles but for flight safety.

* The Federal law (49CFR Parts 571, and Federal Standard 108) states that it, the law, supersedes state and local laws and that modulators are legal on motorcycles. Most of the companies that sell them provide a card with the Federal law cited for your use when you are pulled over by a cop that wants to hassle you for a broken light. They also quote Transport Canada (Docket No. 97-57; Notice 1) Executive Order 12866 [I think .]

I know, I know, that is more than you wanted to know, but I just thought I would throw it all out there.

I have put the Kisan Pathblazer on two LX150s and my GTS250, and also several BMWs and other motorcycles, and it has always been like a rock, worked perfectly. Also, they are so easy to put on I would never consider paying someone else to install/break it. If you can install the headlight bulb, you can install the modulator.

The mode of modulation was chosen because of the things it DOESN'T say. It is nothing like an emergency vehicle. It is not a signal for the other guy to turn left in front of you. It doesn't trigger epileptic seizures. It only MAKES the other guy look at you an notice you. He almost can't "Not see you." If it bothers somebody else, fine! It's working!

As Louisq said

[quoteI did have a guy complain that the modulator was, "really irritating, I could see you coming blocks away...", DOH![/quote]


[OK, time to pick up my soap box and go home. Today MV, tomorrow Hyde Park.]

I've seen em, they definitely work to get attention, and it is exactly the rattling light effect, but like the cager said, they also definitely bug people. I wouldn't put sulfur in my exhaust to keep from getting rear ended, even if the smell was proven to grab attention and increase safety- it would be too annoying to the 99.99% of people who weren't going to rear end me without it...

Every time i go to a bar, I go around telling everyone that i know karate, so they don't try to hurt me- it works, i haven't been attacked, but it's pretty annoying to everyone around me...

This is just what i'm going through in my head and why i wouldn't get one, plus they don't look cool on vespas.

I'll take annoying over dead, personally.

I wonder if i'm really just choosing cool over dead- you know, like deep down?

This is a good point, and indeed was covered in the dissertation that I posted. Page 19: I don't think that this is a reason not to use a modulator, however. I think it's a reason to keep up with the escalation. Indeed, if one doesn't meet the expectation (ie, no DRLs today, or, in a future year, no hi-viz) then one will be even MORE invisible to drivers, independent of whether or not one is riding defensively and trying to avoid situations.

Finally, with respect to avoiding situations: complete avoidance of other drivers' actions may be possible in rural areas, but riding around NYC due to the combination of density and erratic drivers presents situations where it is simply impossible to avoid all the hazards simultaneously unless one is safely parked with the ignition off between two tanks.

Joe Sixpack doesn't pay my hospital bills or insurance tab. Therefore, as long as I'm within my legal rights, I don't care whatsoever if he's annoyed by my "blinding" hi-viz getup, daytime high-beam or a hypothetical modulator. I'll take potentially agitating the odd driver in exchange for 100 others simply noticing me.

I am not saying that modulators are a bad idea, just that I think that we sometimes dwell on them, and other hi visibility strategies whole assuming that we are riding as safe as we can. I think we need to reiterate thae riding safely more and harp on the equipment a little less. Good equipment is important, but the number 1 safety tool in our arsenal is our own ability to avoid situations that require another driver to see us for us to be safe.

To me, we can use the tools to our advantage, but those tools are in addition to, not in replacement of contiinued rider education and skills training. To my mind, for a rider that took has not taken a safety class in the last 5 years, the 200 spent on a modulator and installation would be better spent On q class to improve rider skill, and there is always room for improvement, unless maybe you are dani pedrosa.

A modulator in addition to that class is great, but if it is either or, i personally think the class is the better value.

MilleniumFalcon wrote: I'm the one choosing to drive an inherently dangerous vehicle

I would offer: A vehicle that involves more inherent risk than an automobile, but not necessarily "dangerous".

To me, while I would not argue against modulators, I would not sign on the dotted line that they have been proven.

That said, if they are not proven to cause mishaps, then they deserve the benefit of the doubt. I do find it interesting, and sad, that the push to allow modulators was made in 1981, yet no follow on studies have been made, and if they have, they are not conspicuous.

Cheers,

Al

Al, I agree that it would be nice to see some studies quantifying their effect. However they were the product of research aimed at another problem, the product of which was adapted to motorcycles as an afterthought. Back when I was debating whether to spend $100+ for the first one I talked to other riders about them and read the magazine articles and decided to give one a try. I noticed a real effect, just as some have reported above, and became a believer. Virtually all of my riding has been in urban environments with the probability of a car turning in front of me or pulling out into my lane very high. I have seen such instances reduced hugely with the modulator.

On the GT bikes raising and propping the seat on the handlebars almost always turns off the bright switch or the kill switch or both. I can tell when my bright switch is off because people are trying to kill me. Flip the switch and people begin to yield.

+1

You're right, well said.

So I am getting that I will still have to wear a helmet even with a modulator?