Modern Vespa

Hi All.
I've been fiddling with my P200E since I put the Sito+ on it. Finally have it where it's running strong, and now I'm thinking about drilling the air cleaner mod, which will likely start me fussing with it all over again.

I have the SI 24/24 that uses the idle jets that are plugged, not the typical ones everybody else seems to have. Question- would I only drill for the main jet or still drill both holes? I'm already running a 120 main jet with BE4 (BE3 on order already).

Also, given that I have a Sito+ already is this worth doing? I suspect from the chart I've seen that it's a great mod to do, but I'm wondering if my 120 will need to go up as a result. It's already a bigger jet than most of you run (I've tried 2 complete sets of jets from 116- 122), I found 1 of the 120s works great- varying results with others.

I just hate that the minute I get this running great I'm want to mess with it some more! ARGH! What say you?

Stop messing and start racing your friends around town and enjoy the ride.

The point of drilling the air filter is to give the air correctors better flow/more air. If you have the plugged non-AC idle jet, then you don't need to drill a hole for it.

Sounds like a valid point, however, since there is a main jet sitting next to the idle jet, is the return of performance worth drilling out the hole in the air filter and having to potentially get my setup dialed in again?

In real world terms if I'll get a bit more power and potentially pick up a couple MPH, then it may make sense to spend the time. If it's a silly effort that folks have not seen any noticable improvement, then I'd just as soon pass. Hoping for some real world feedback. Also interested if there are any downsides to this.

yes a drilled filter does make a good difference

yes you only need to drill above the main jet


and yes a 120 will be fine

Perfect- Thanks! Will give it a shot!

Perfect- Thanks! Will give it a shot!

+1
I have done the mod after riding around w/Sito for a bit. Yes it did make a difference.
I have a 118 @100 ft. above sea level.24/24 Spaco, mix 2 turns out.

I've been confused about the air filter mod - one of the references I've seen on here implies that the blockage on the air filter is only present in US, Australia, and maybe some other markets, while in Europe the air filters came already open. Is this the case? Are we just correcting for a restriction on the filter put in place for US emissions requirements?

Pretty much.

Afaik all of the older filters came with no holes above the jets, hence the drilling mod (which is actually recommended in some of the aftermarket cylinder kit documentation). My non-US market 2007 PX also has no opening above the jets.

However, I ordered some new Piaggio bagged replacement filters from Motorsport in the last couple years and they already had holes above the main and idle jets as supplied. That was pretty cool.

Maybe some shops can clarify if all the Piaggio spare part filters come this way now?

My Euro spec PX came with the "blockage".

Hm ok, I was skeptical that the blockage was not there in Europe.

http://www.vespalabs.org/Vespa_Tuning/Air_Filter_Hole

That's the link that had me thinking there isn't likely much harm in doing the mod- picture of part in package with the holes already in it.

I just figure you folks would know whether this is conventional wisdom or a mod not worth doing. So far sounds like it's not the worst thing one could do...

I've never done this mod on any of my scooters, how
much do you really get from it?

A while back(a few years), I asked a well respected shop
about it , and they did not care for the idea.

Rob

Here is a link that shows the dyno tests for the drill out, Sito + and stock comparison.

http://www.vespalabs.org/Labs/Lab_Research/Dyno_Results/Air_Filter_Hole_and_Sito_Plus

Courtesy of my scooter Bud, Jan Haugsted, in Denmark.

Jim

just did the mod and we will see how it goes.......

hey dabears

i dunno if you remember, but you gave me some advice a while back, so i kinda owe you one. if you want some real world feedback, i'm now running the sito on a completely stock px 200, with a 24/24 carb and the airfilter drilled (both holes) upjetted to 120. the power increase was immense and my bike breathes a lot better and with the sito has the ability to rev higher and hold on to each gear for much longer. in my opinion the mod is a must do, simple, cheap and effective. my resto is almost complete and i'll post some pics in the next couple of days...

Got back from a long weekend in Destin and my BE3 had arrived, along with a new rubber center mat for my P.

Popped out the BE4 and put the BE3 in, drilled only 1 of the holes (recall my carb is the one where the idle jet is a plugged one). I'm already running a 120 main jet (yeah it's supposedly bigger than I need but my scooter did not like the 118).

Test ride seemed strong, good pulling power from low speed, solid throttle response at high revs in 3rd, and 4th seemed strong. I have not hit more than an indicated 52 MPH before, and I was able to hit 55.

Knowing my speedo reads low I cable tied my Zumo on and headed out. I'm now hitting a GPS indicated 59 MPH, which I know is way less than what everyone claims here. I weigh 220, so I'm sure that's contributing.

So overall I'm glad I did it, I just kinda wish I was pulling those 65-70 MPH top speeds like others a saying they routinely get. For now I'm stopping with any future performance mods and focusing on cables and other basic maintenance items. Thanks for all of your collective wisdom!

59 is a respectable speed for a stock P2. I don't think very many people hit 70 on a stock P2. I haven't GPSed my top speed at that weight - at 140 I hit near 64 or 65. I suspect at 220 I'd be at about ~60. Just sayin, you might not have that much to worry about for the scoot. In my opinion, without some brake and suspension upgrades it's kinda dangerous to be going over 60 on them anyway

FYI... my stock 78 P200 hit 62mph the other day on the GPS. Speedo indicated about 57. I've seen claims of 70mph for a stock 200 but I think that would take a cliff...

Chuck

Thanks all, sounds like I'm right in the ballpark for where I should be running.

As noted I'm done fooling with the engine and will just work on replacing wear out items like cables etc.

Now watch, I'll ride home from work today and decide it needs a bit more tweaking. It's a sickness I tell ya.

How's your plug looking? Did you rejet?

I'm thinking I'll do the same thing this weekend....right now I'm running a 100 main and it's a bit lean but boggy as hell if I go to the 105. I'd like to drill it out and see if the 105 works before I spring for a 24/24....

This has been debated and discussed on here a few times. There are many factors as to why your scooter might be slower than say the next. It's history (running in period) weight, weather (temp) tyres all have an impact on your performance. A real life 62 mph should be pretty standard for a P200, but not always.

I have always done the air filter mod (whole heart) on all P's that i have had. Not because it will make your scooter "faster" more so for it to run better.

Cheers

JimH- Now I'm intrigued.

Looking at the picture you've attached there is a hole at about 1:00 that is not shown on the one from the VespaLabs link I posted above. That would presumably be over the "brass plug with hole" that mine has. Now I need to consider whether that would be a smart thing to do as well. I'm actually temped to do the whole heart as you've done as well...

Nigelthefish- I did not rejet, but I did change my air mixer tube from BE4 to BE3. I'm already running two sizes larger than most would say is reasonable (I'm at 120, most agree 118 is optimal). The plug looks fine, although I have noticed a bit of bog now just off idle. Have not had a chance to adjust the low speed screw, so will play with that tomorrow. It seems to run great and it feels like midrange is stronger than before.

My only gripe as I've said is that I seem to top out at 59 MPH which considering I've added a Sito+ and bumped jets at the time is a bit disappointing. On a positive note I am now able to keep up with traffic on my commute, so for now the world is good.

How'd it go for you Kyle?

Did mine and up jetted....was running a little lean before.

It's fucking perfect now. Awesomely perfect plug chop. Looks better than when the bike was stock (was really rich then) and better than before I did the drilling. Power is perfect, chop is good, ride to the mountains today was fucking great.

I just ordered the SIP PX air filter from Scooter Mercato. The holes are already machined in on these. I was afraid that I might not blow out all of the shavings so for $18.49 it wasn't worth the risk of ingesting metal bits into the engine. part # 131083

I got a sito plus with the scoot when purchased and no one had upped the jets. All were stock jetting on my Euro model P200e.
I weighed in at 160lbs when I was doing the top speed testing. New Orleans is roughly at sea level.
I drilled the one hole over the main jet and then tried a 120, 122 and ended up with a 125 main jet, (BE3) and now runs just fine, and nice color when doing plug chop.
Before the upjet I was able to do 68 mph (gps) flat road, and it doesn't do any better top speed but it does seem to pull much better. I have gotten up to 72mph with the wind at my back at absolute WOT. Downhill I have gotten up to 74mph best ever. But that is really almost too fast for 10" wheels in my opinion. Don't hit a pothole doing that speed.