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Looking for a little wisdom here. I'm getting 2 stroke oil in the engine case of my us spec '75 Rally 200. I drained the oil the other day and instead of the honey color the gear oil is supposed to be it was blueish and in greater quantity than I was expecting (I'm running the blue synthetic two stroke oi). I'm assuming it's coming from a leak in my auto lube system. Would this be a replacement of the gasket within the auto lube, replacement of the seal below the air box, or something else?

Thanks
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I don't have the answer you're looking for. But mine did the same thing. I'm not sure if my crazy theory fixed it since I haven't opened up the oil filler since I last messed with it.

I chose not to open up my carb and I'm running with a lower oil level in the oil tank. I don't know if this stopped it or not.
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hmmm... well I guess running a lower level in the oil res. would give less "hydraulic head" in the line and maybe it would be less likely to weep into the engine case. I drained the oil and left it empty last weekend so I'll check to see if I've got more two stroke in the case in a couple of days. Either way seems like I may have a seal or gasket issue in the auto lube.

Thanks
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That's the theory I'm working on. I haven't opened it up to check though.

I was at a point a few months ago where I was either going to tear the whole bike down or put it back together and ride it. I chose the latter.
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Re: '75 Rally Auto Lube Question
RSK wrote:
I drained the oil the other day and instead of the honey color the gear oil is supposed to be it was blueish and in greater quantity than I was expecting (I'm running the blue synthetic two stroke oi).
Failed clutch side oil seal.
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if it was a failed clutch side seal, would I smell gas in the oil I drained from the engine case? What drained from the case only smelled of oil, no gas that I could tell.
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boney wrote:
I chose not to open up my carb and I'm running with a lower oil level in the oil tank. I don't know if this stopped it or not.
? Maybe I am misunderstanding your statement, but remember that "Autolube" is exactly what it says.... Auto. The oil metering device pulls oil into the system as the engine revs. Lowering the quantity in the tank will not affect how much oil gets to the carb...
RSK wrote:
if it was a failed clutch side seal, would I smell gas in the oil I drained from the engine case? What drained from the case only smelled of oil, no gas that I could tell.
Yes, typically you would smell gas. Remember though, gear oil doen't stay clear and honey colored very long. As it cycles through it picks up dust, dirt, carbon, metal shavings, etc... getting darker and opaque over time is normal.
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the oil drained was definately blue and was rather young, proably less than 100 miles since I changed it previously. Is it possible to weep or leak oil into the engine case through the worm drive gear that drives the auto lube?

thanks
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RSK wrote:
the oil drained was definately blue and was rather young, proably less than 100 miles since I changed it previously. Is it possible to weep or leak oil into the engine case through the worm drive gear that drives the auto lube?

thanks
Pull your clutch cover and find out
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any harm running with a leaky clutch side seal, at least for a little while? I'll have to pull the clutch to see both the clutch side seal and the gear that drives the auto lube off the primary drive gear, correct? Also, once the clutch is out, will a failed clutch side seal be relatively obvious?

thanks, Rick
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Would it be possible for the 2-T oil to leak from the inside of the oil pump in the air box, through its drive and down into the crankcase? That would allow a direct path via the worm gear drive.
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Birdsnest wrote:
boney wrote:
I chose not to open up my carb and I'm running with a lower oil level in the oil tank. I don't know if this stopped it or not.
? Maybe I am misunderstanding your statement, but remember that "Autolube" is exactly what it says.... Auto. The oil metering device pulls oil into the system as the engine revs. Lowering the quantity in the tank will not affect how much oil gets to the carb...
The theory is that the oil reservoir is lower than the autolube, and the high level of oil (higher than the carburetor) could create hydraulic pressure on the system creating the potential for oil to weep past the seals and down the shaft into the clutch. This is of course at rest, over time.
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Go here:

http://www.thescentwizard.com/Fragrance_Oil_Scented_Oil_Home_Fragrance_Oil_s_s/8.htm

Scent the injection oil, see if/where it shows up.. Plus rocking the block smelling like Cinn-a-buns is fun..
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After draining the oil two weeks ago, I plug the oil and let the scoot sit empty. Opened the oil drain plug yesterday and aout a half ounce of 2 stock drained out, so I'm pretty sure that I'm weaping oil into the engine case via the autolube drive gear. Could this be fixed by changing out the gasket in the auto lube?
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Hmmm....I'm not sure I buy it. Clutch side still seems more likely. If your gearbox is "dry" though (drained of gear oil) why not pull you clutch out and see what you see. If indeed blue 2T is coming in at the autolube pinion, I think it would be obvious when looking at it. If the pinion is covered in blue oil, then you could begin looking at rebuilding your autolube. I think you should be cautious though, because if the problem isn't autolube and you go monkeying with it, its very easy to screw up the autolube. No harm in looking inside your case though.
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Is the motor Femsa or P style? What's the motors serial number? Maybe take a pic of the injection pump inside the airbox and post it..

I have rebuilt both styles of systems, and yes, Femsa cases and P cases have different injection systems, very similar looking but very different. The early Femsa style drive shaft is sealed at the case via o-ring, and the system is lubricated by the 2t oil... But P style drive shafts do have these spiral cuts on the shaft(part# 60, diagram below) that look to raise oil into the main drive area for lubrication, how much I don't know, but also there is a weep hole for the oil to drain back into the case. So case oil is separated from the pumping 2t oil by a simple o-ring, check the P parts diagram:

http://www.scooterhelp.com/manuals/VNX1T.VSX1T.parts/page018.jpg

Part 61 is the o-ring.

So IF you have a P system the o-ring 61 would be my first guess, if Femsa the o-ring at the top of the drive where it passes the cases would be my guess.

Hope this helps, good luck.. And as someone mentioned, it is a pretty sensitive component. If you aren't so sure of your mechanical abilities maybe find a wrench who is.. If you're good, print out the proper parts explosion and go for it.
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So can the difference be told with this?

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I think there's supposed to be an o-ring on the autolube pinion gear (the part in your photo with the brass shaft). You'll know if you see a groove on it when you pull it out through the airbox. If it's worn or missing, then the oil will drop right into the gearbox.
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Oh snap! I think Tedfords got it. (and the Professor). I've got a 74 and can confirm the o-ring is used on that model. This is me eating my words on my earlier diagnosis.
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I'm 90% sure that is a femsa type/style system.. And yes, as I said it has a o-ring on the top of the shaft, it's got a kind of cap.. The o-ring's in the Piaggio gasket kit, when replaced the cap it kinda stands proud until you install the airbox which seats it..

But since that wasn't the OP's picture...

On P systems that shaft has spiral groves which appear to draw case oil up and into the gear area. And there is a small drain hole(When you install a Malossi intake/carb kit it comes with a small teardrop shaped plate to block the shaft hole, the screw for this plate actually goes in the drain hole thus blocking it)..

Writing all this since I'm betting the OP has a P style system. Hard for me to imagine any amount of oil getting past a worn ring on a Femsa type system. Could be possible since I can't really say I get them 100%.


Also if this was happening without running it might point to you keeping too much injection oil in the tank. As someone pointed out before, it should never really be high enough to apply hydrostatic pressure at the inlet.
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Thanks for the help everyone. I apologize to OP for hijacking the thread, but since I was having the same problem, it seemed like better than starting a new one. Yes? No? Anyway, I've got another thing to look at next time I open up the bike. Maybe I'll buy a gasket kit (and o-ring if it's not in there) and do a r/r on the carb. It's only been 36 years...
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Very helpful intel everyone, thanks.

I've got a Fesma system on my '75 Rally, I believe the p series coincides with intro of the p series in late '77 (The Rally and P200 had the same engines in '77 and '78, I believe). Sounds like I may be able to replace the o-ring from the top of the case. I've never opened up an auto lube and have been told not to touch it unless you know it's shot but in this case sounds like I'll be able to access by removing the air box.
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