Modern Vespa

An "Epic Fail" on this one!!!!

The 120/90x10 would not fit without rubbing the tyre hugger even though it seemed that it would clear the floor okay when it is on the stand - its going back tomorrow and hopefully I'm going to try a 120/80x10 (indeed if such a size is manufactured!)

On a brighter note though the scoot went up to 57 on the clock today (the GPS recorded a 51.5!!)

You seem to have done a lot of work on the scoot and a lot of tweaking to achieve 50mph.

Frankly i find it a bit odd your doing so much work since I get my ET2 scoot to the same speed and all I did was slap a malossi 70cc kit on it 7000km ago and havent done anything since.

aside from the kit it is bone stock, so I am not sure what all your tweaking and wrenching is accomplishing.

Its probably because you started with a newer scoot?

perhaps, mine ET2 is a 2005, but are they not all the same?

I'm not too sure, I know mine started with a measly 12mm Weber Carb where yours probably had a 17.5 Dell'orto as standard so that was one of the mods that I had to do. I've fitted a 70cc kit and that gave a whole load more acceleration and bottom-end performance and the fitting of a 17.5 dellorto carb made it really shine. The exhaust I fitted makes the engine rev really well, I've tried refitting the standard exhaust for comparison purposes and it just doesn't rev the same as the Giannelli. I'm still wanting to tinker with the roller weights a little to fine tune it a bit.

In answer to you question what am I achieving by all the tweaking.... Well the scoot runs at 57mph now (indicated) which on the local Dual Carriageway that I use which is rated at 50mph means I can keep up with the traffic. It makes the scoot very useable now and probably a lot more safer that being at the mercy of cars that regularly run at speeds way in excess of the mandatory limits.

Remember that I challenged myself to get to the highest top speed with spending the least cash on it. The scoot cost me £260 (approx $410Canadian, if I've done my maths correctly) and was a non-runner, and the mods so far total up to only £63 ($100Canadian). That's why I'm bothering - its a challenge to myself, I'm posting the results on a regular basis so that anyone else who wants to do similar things to their scoot can benefit from my attempts.

Hope this helps

I love this thread. Fifties rock

Thank you HotBox for the nice comment !!

Its nice to get some appreciation and encouragement instead of being knocked - I hope that what I'm doing (or trying to do-hehe) is interesting to others apart from me - I know I'm getting a lot out of the challenge - I'm learning pretty quickly (bearing in mind that I've not done any spanner work before)

Im really pleased to see you managed to hit the 50mph + mark . Im fed up with negative comments about modding 50cc engines (the usual smartarse comment of waste of money and save youre dosh and buy a bigger engine scoot). It is unbeliveable to see you have spent hardly money to accompolish your goal . I am about to embark on a simular project myself although it will cost a lot more that yours im sure. How did you manage to get a 700cc kit so cheap.

enjoyed your thread and happy scooting

Hi Wacka

Thanks for the fabulous comments (I've just clicked the 'Thumbs=Up' button against your post) !!

I think you have understood exactly what I was trying to say about positive/negative comments - I for one wouldn't dream of posting something negative about someone else's project - I just don't think its fair.

I'd rather encourage and praise someone else's efforts even if they weren't doing exactly what I'd do, this I feel is the whole point of some threads in that we work together to learn from each other and to expand our knowledge but just as importantly we encourage each other on to our goals.

The 70cc kit was sourced from a very decent member on this site who I owe a great deal of thanks.

But as in life generally I think that with some thought and a lot of imagination we can overcome most obstacles.

Once more thanks again

PS.....I'd be interested to hear from any others members who have good input/suggestions to make towards my goal - which as you know is......As fast as possible for as little as possible.

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Fabio, I've really enjoyed your efforts to get a 50cc into the 50mph realm. There are lots of us who stick by our 50cc scoots and don't want the hassle of registration and don't care to go cross country. We tune because that's what we do...

BrotherJim....

Thanks for the fab comment buddy !!

I must admit now that I've got the scoot up to 57mph(indicated) and it seems to be consistent that I want to top the 60mph(indicated) mark - on my ET2 60mph is the 'top peg' on the speedo if you know what I mean.

I feel that the engine is still very capable and has a little more to give yet, so I'm going to focus on the transmission side of the scoot by trying to cheaply change the gearing. My first effort of swapping the standard rear tyre (120/70x10) for a 120/90x10 was a failure as the "taller" tyre wouldnt clear the tyre hugger/engine. Not one to be easily deterred, I'm contemplating a 130/70x10 which should be 10mm wider (5mm each side) and about 8% taller and I think about 3% higher geared (assuming my logic is correct on this). The current tyre is due a change so this is a very cheap way to 'Gear-Up' if it works.

I'm hoping that will get me up to 61-62mph, and then I'm hopefully going to source a cheap screen/flyscreen to make the scoot/me more aerodynamic, hoping for 2-3 more mph there - so a top speed of 65(indicated) is now on my horizon, just how i'm going to measure this i don't yet know. ET2 screens seem very dear, but I'm contemplating a universal screen to hopefully make it inexpensive as I don't mind modding it to make it fit.

A couple more things I've been pondering......

I'm still running the stock rollers (19x15.5x6.5g) but don't know which way to go with these yet, should I just leave them or go lighter or heavier, the engine has lots of accelerating 'grunt' and I'm after top-end speed so I guess heavier, but I'm not at all convinced of my logic here? However not to be beaten, I've got hold of 2 sets of stock rollers (got both sets for £4 in total - its a long story but the supplier who sold them to me sent stock rollers instead of heavier ones and then sent me more + a refund as a gesture of good will, yay!), I'm intending to drill one set out so that they are lighter - say 5.5g, and make the other set heavier somehow say 7.5g, then I will have 3 sets to try to enable me to get the best set up. Not too sure what to fill them with to make them heavier though, also I need to get some very accurate scales or find a cheap way of measuring the weight of them.

I'm still going to tinker a bit with my carb set-up too - I nipped out tonight on the scoot (its cold tonight) and I noticed an improvement in acceleration over daytime riding, I'm thinking that means that I'm running too rich, but whether that is to do with the main jet size i'm running or to do with the clip position I'm not at all sure - tinkering will get me there I'm sure.

You say you get 57MPH on the scooter Speedometer, but what is the "real" speed with a GPS?

52mph GPS - its detailed in the notes above

wow for that budget that is some good speed value. great dollar to kph ratio.

im content with maxing out at 80-85ish km/h, mine came witht he malossi kit installed and im not sure what the card is but I dont think its a delorto, i think its a weber.

I dont like working on the scoot myself since I am a total newb with engines ect.

changing the hub oil was enough of a challenge, who ever placed the nut in that location needs to be brought behind the vespa factory and beaten up.

anywho good luck.

cant believe you got a vespa for 500

It was cheap because it was in a bit of a state. It had stood for 7-9 years in someone's back yard under a tarpaulin, It was a non starter/non runner.

Took a bit of tinkering and lubing/greasing, adjusting and making good, taking certain bits off and getting them working again and refitting them (like the starter motor, brakes etc and more recently the work I've done on the variator/rear pulley as detailed in the thread) and then when it would turn over I had to remove the carb, take it apart and thouroghly clean it out.

The bodywork has a few light scratches but is in pretty good condition considering, but when I got the scoot it was covered in a layer of green algae/sludge, quite funny cos at first I thought it was a light mint colour - hehe.

I'm finding that I'm generally pretty good at finding bargains, and modding stuff and making the most of what I've got around me, so this helps to keep the whole project cost down.

Thanks for the nice comments!!

Press on. I too am very much enjoying your personnal challenge from afar!!

Thanks for the encouragement LostBoater!!!

Don't worry I will press on !!

Its great to see that what I'm doing is interesting/useful to lots of people.

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Tonight's modding action........


Decided to see if I could lighten one of the extra sets of stock rollers that I have, they weighed in at 6.5g and I wanted to try them 1.0g lighter each to see what effect that had on the scooter's acceleration, I'm planning on making the other spare set I've got heavier to 7.5g and then i'll have a good comparison so I can tell which ones to run.

First thing i did was borrowed some scales that would allow me to weigh them accurately before I started to lighten them. First weigh-in showed 39g (6.5g per roller)

Not quite knowing how much of the metal to drill out to get to my desired weight I decided to drill them all out a little and then reweigh them so that I could judge how much metal/weight I was taking off.

At the second weigh-in it racked up 36g on the scales so 6g each, I taken off 0.5g per roller.

Went again with the drilling, only a slightly larger bore this time as I didn't want to overdo it.

Third weigh-in 33grammes so 5.5g each ! Fantastic !!!

They need a little polishing now to remove any burrs that remain, just hope its all been worthwhile and they make my engine rev better.

Just off to polish them now and fit them - will post back with the results after a few rides out soon.

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Reporting back now..........


Got the drilled-out rollers fitted and the engine does seem a bit more responsive bottom end, seems to fly between 20-40mph even more so now, so i'm happy with that alteration.

Top speed doesn't seem to be effected but I suspected it wouldn't be any different, I will have to ride the scoot for a while to make sure that mid range isn't altered in any way (40-50mph ish)

Interestingly though..... and very pleasingly...... when I removed the variator/pulley cover there wasn't a sign of rubber drive belt dust anywhere, so the work I did on de-rusting the pulleys must have worked, I've done quite a few miles since the work and the top speed hasn't deteriorated so I'm guessing I've cracked this one - Good Stuff !!

Me and a friend have identical Hyosung/UM scoots and have modded them with the same components. They started out with a top speed of 33mph. After derestricting variator, carburetor plate, cdi and upjetting to #85 main jet, Technigas nextR pipe and 6gr sliders, we're hitting 48mph. I'm waiting for 4.5gr Dr.pulley sliders to arrive and will trade out 3 of the 6gr for 3 4.5gr for an average weight of 5.25gr per slider or 31.5gr total weight. We're looking to break the 50mph barrier ourselves with just 50cc's. If we don't get it with this configuration we'll move on to the clutch torque spring and then consider a BBK. To clarify, the speeds mentioned are indicated, not GPS verified lest I come off as a braggart. You've made some exceptional headway and are doing the 50cc class proud.

BrotherJim......

Thanks very much for the great comments - how old are your scoots? From what I've found the most cost effective thing I've done is looked at the transmission side of the scoot if its an older scoot, belt, variator surfaces, rollers etc.

did anyone find anything out about cutting a notch in the cdi and how to perform it - to stop the revs being restricted.
Im very intrested to hear if this works

Congratulations on your success, especially given that so many are so negative. 2T scoots respond well to tuning. 4T... not so well. CVT tuning is where all scoots seem to have the biggest bang for the buck/pound improvements.

Since you now have a couple different sets ove rollers, have you tried mixing rollers? For example, I thing you said you had 6s and 7.5s... try putting them in like this...6-7.5-6-7.5-6-7.5

You will end up with something approximating the average of the two weights involved. You may get you your low speed performance and keep your top-end... or improve it. This is also free since I think you mentioned you have three set of weights already?

As to the CDI, not all CDI are restricted. Those that are can either be unrestricted by cutting a loop or punching the case in a certain spot... but you need to know where that spot is.

Scooter modding is much less expensive in the UK than it is in the US... BUT US modders.. remember that ATV and quad parts are cheaper than scooter parts and are frequently the same things. ATVs and quads are much more prevalent than scooters... but most are made by the same factories as many of the scoots on the road.

Hi Wacka...

Didn't find anything out about this at all, nobody seemed to know on this forum, and I couldn't find anything out on the net on 2T, its applicable on 4T engines I know, but not sure as of yet on 2strokes.

If i find anything useful out i'll post it here for you.

Thanks TechGuy, fab comments.

I'm still new to roller swapping/trialling but that sounds like a very interesting idea.

I've also got to look at my springs (I'm guessing) because the take off from stationary is now poorer - its a bit stuttery until about 2-3 mph when it gets rolling and then its like lightening, I'm guessing because the power band has moved up the rev scale?

Any ideas/thoughts anyone on what I need to consider changing here?

Thanks

Mine is a 2006...takeoff is poor with the Technigas having moved the powerband to mid and top range. That's the reason for lighter roller/sliders and the stronger torque spring. Hard for me to explain the concept properly as I'm technically challenged but am sure there are others here with the ability to give it a proper explanation.

You need stiffer clutch springs (the little ones on the shoes, not the big torque spring) to keep the clutch from engaging until the engine gets its revs up into its new power band. This will make riding in stop-and-go traffic even less fun, though.

The clutch springs will mainly only effect your performance in the 0-5 MPH range.... unless you are slipping at the upper end... but this is much less likely given your other performance gains. If you were looking to gain at the red light or were racing, it could be a clutch issue.

I think you are looking for gains in the 25-50 MPH range and maintaining your top speed performance. These have little to do with your clutch. These are engine and CVT issues. A race CDI will solve the restriction issue and I think they are pretty cheap there. Modifying your existing CDI is free... until you kill it doing it wrong.

I think that its probably clutch springs that I need to change, the scoot is underpowered now in the 0-5mph range.

This is what I'm thinking.........

I think that stronger clutch springs change what RPM the clutch engages. I want it engaging at where the power band starts. Too soft and the scoot won't move until the revs pick up (when I fitted the Giannelli and moved the power band higher up the rpm's) too hard and i'll end up full throttling from a stand still in one big dollop.

I've seen a set of three different strength springs - red,blue,green - which I guess are used in a trial and error fashion until I find the correct ones?

Does this make any sense whatsoever or am I just talking rubbish??

Had some problems tonight with the scoot not idling properly, kept cutting out, and then a petrol leak, looked to see if the idle jet was blocked but this was ok.

Found the culprit pretty quickly though..... fuel pipe had a little split in it.

Fixed this by shortening the pipe by about an inch, took the oportunity to swap the main jet down to an 82, going to run that and do some plug chops over the weekend to see if I can sort the daytime/night-time running rich observation.

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Yes, your thinking is correct. The set of clutch springs should have manufacturer's data included that shows at what rpm the clutch will engage for each color, so it shouldn't be entirely trial and error.

Best thread ever!

I must admit I never realised that, so what you're saying is that the stock springs will have a weight/strength/rpm stamped onto them and so will the replacements so that I can compare them in my mind before I fit them?

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Thanks Xantu !!!

Much appreciated.

It started as a bit of a challenge, but has somehow turned into a daily log, hehe !



PS - just clicking the 'thumbs up' button on all the good posts I've received !

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+1!

I am reading, and absorbing most of the tuning principles apply to our S50...guess what else I'll be tinkering with over the winter! For strict legal reasons it's not allowed to go over 30mph (ish) but tuning it so it wallops up to 30 is not explicitly forbidden

Thank you HotBox for your support!

I'm making a bit more progress on some of my final 3 tinkerings (which I must admit has now gone up to a list of 6).

1st was to "Gear-up" in some sort of way, you'll remember me saying that a Gear-up kit seems expensive (considering that I'm not a money-spending type of guy-hehe) so I was trying to fit a larger circumference tyre to simulate a 'poor-mans' gear-up kit, my current tyre hasn't got massive amounts of tread left so this is a bit of a no-cost option to me. The stock rear tyre is a 120/70x10 so the rolling diameter is (brace yourself for the maths!!! - hope I get it right) 10inch x25.4 + 120x70% x2 x Pi which works out at 1325mm. The first tyre I offered up was a 120/90x10 so...... 10inch x25.4 + 120x90% x2 x Pi which works out at 1475mm, so a 11% gear-up but the tyre wouldn't physically fit in the space available as it touched the engine/tyre hugger (but only just so a different profile tyre may do the job)

Luckily I had borrowed this tyre (remember the space doughnut) and could return it at no cost to me.

It seems that a 120/80x10 either doesnt exist or is hard to come by so my attentions went to a 130/70x10 which would be only 5mm wider each side on the width so hopefully will clear the shock absorber which sits on the left side of the scoot next to the tyre (might need a spacer/shim as long as i'm very careful!!)

A 130/70x10 would give...... 10inch x25.4 + 130x70% x2 x Pi which works out at 1369mm, so a 3% gear-up and assuming that this all turns into top-end speed then its good for 2-3 mph

I'm on the look-out for a tyre now and I'm hoping that the SOR source that I had the 120/90 from will oblige on a "try but don't fit till you're sure basis" if you see what I mean, alternatively if there is anyone out there who has an unused/worn 130/70x10 or similar (even a 120/80x10 if they exist) that they would like to loan me to see if it fits in the space available i'd be very very grateful.

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Oh yes....and I nearly forgot....

The list of 6 'tinkerings' that I'm thinking about....

1 - Poor-mans Gear-Up kit (bigger back tyre)
2 - Flyscreen - They're hellishly expensive - I think I'm going to fashion one myself, I'm just looking around all of the local diy shops to get some ideas of best materials
3 - Exhaust wrap - looks good/retro-ish and from what I can gather may make a slight increase in HP hence its of interest to me - also it can be bought on ebay fairly cheaply so it seems.
4 - Clutch springs - see the above recent posts- again fairly inexpensive and will help my initial take off - just don't want to get too harsh an initial lift-off, might have an alternative cheap supplier for these.
5 - Contra Spring - but I've got to understand more about this as of yet and what benefits it may bring me.
6 - Spotlight - I want to add a spotlight to the front of the scoot in some way, faster riding needs more light at night !!!!


Any thoughts always gratefully received......

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I've got to be honest...
At first when I saw this thread I was like "eh another 50cc modded up, been there, done that and after spending so much money you will realize you should have just upgraded to larger displacement"

But now this thread has captured my attention. There are so many good suggestions from people here at MV.
And the step by step updates have really got me hooked (good job Fabio Dougie)

I haven't contributed to this thread because at first I would have blasted you for attempting something like this, but in the past few weeks I haven't contributed for lack of expertise to an amazing attempt.

This thread is indeed epic!

Kudos Fabio Dougie

Hi DaniFly....

Thanks for the great comments, please chip in whenever you feel like with info or experiences or thoughts. I'm very much learning and I'm always open to new ideas.

I think that you are totally right, I also think that 50cc riders get maligned sometimes, we're not all 17 year olds (I'm far far older than that - hehe), and I think for pootering around town etc they are perhaps the most suitable for many reasons, I just wanted to make mine a little more useable on dual-carriageways..... and that's when the challenge was set in my mind. I didn't want to spend buckets of cash on the project, but I wanted something useable that would keep up with 50mph traffic/keep me safe.

Thanks once again DaniFly - very much appreciated - just clicking the 'thumbs-up' box now for you.......

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