Modern Vespa

Sousapro, hopefully you won't be planning to haul your tuba on your scooter. 8) Let us know how your project progresses!

which really appeals to my make-do mentality. Looking forward to hearing any further developments!

Are there any possibilities for improving top speed with improving the power to weight ratio by reducing the weight part of the equation? Like cars with drilled discs and perforated brake and accelerator pedals? I'd imagine the gains would be minimal, but you don't know until you try, and they'd be a very low cost option.

I'm saying nothing about the P/W ratio of the rider, mind!

All the best

Geeza

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Thank you for the Fantastic comments everybody - I started this thread back in October 2010 - thats only 3 months ago and already it has had over 5000 views!!!!!!!!!

I know that many laugh at us 50cc scooterists - but I love every moment of it, the thing for me is to see how well I can do on a limited budget, and I think that if I can do it then so can anyone else.

Once again - thank you everybody who's read/contributed, for all your encouragement!!

I'll update the thread soon with an overview of everything I've done on the ET2 so that its concise and easy to follow.

Fabio

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really looking forward to your cleaned up post . I plan to mod my bike here in about a month

Really enjoyed reading this thread Fabio. I just picked up an'03 ET2 with only 1100 miles on it. Like sousapro, I'm a pretty big guy at 240 lbs., and I need more power.

I was able to learn more in a few hours of reading than I could have in months of trial and error. Thanks for sharing your breakthroughs as well as, more importantly, your mistakes with the rest of us. There are quite a few of us who'll be going faster in a fraction of the time by learning from your thread.

Keep up the good work!

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As promised here's a post with a summarised and cleaned up version of this thread....


As you will remember I bought a 50cc ET2 scooter and realised that i knew very about getting it on the road.

I searched around the internet for quite a while but found that there was no single place to find all the information that I needed.

So I started posting on MV and with the help of MV members I created a thread that has had approaching 5500 views.

I accepted that I knew very little and by reading and listening to the opinions of those with a lot more experience than me. and then by a process of trial and error I got the ET2 running, and then my mind went onto more exciting things........... like how could I get the most out of it???


So I set myself a challenge..... I wondered how fast I could get it to go without spending much cash on it.



So here's a summary of what I did to it with an analysis of the expenditure..


29mph...£260.....ET2 1997 Scooter (non runner - it had been sat for about 8-9 years in someone's garage unused)
37mph................Removed variator washer
39mph...£030.....Malossi 70cc kit (Second-hand Malossi Iron kit)
42mph...£015.....Giannelli Frankenstein exhaust (a damaged Giannelli exhaust that I "rebuilt")
43mph...£018.....Dellorto 17.5 PHVA (needed vacuum pipe connection mod)
55mph................New drive belt/refurbed pulleys
57mph...£010.....Lighter Rollers,bigger Main jet (here is the real trial and error stage!)
57mph...£005.....Stiffer Clutch Springs
59mph...£011.....Flyscreen (designed and built it myself to keep costs down)
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???mph...£349....Will it get any faster???? (Amount spent on "performance" related items £89)

You will find all of the details in the thread of how I tried certain things and failed, and then tried again and failed again, but then tried once more and finally succeeded.



The more technical things that I discovered I've written them up as Wiki Articles - One on getting the scooter set up correctly if its a non-runner - and another on how to set up your carburetor to its best settings.


You will find those wiki articles here.....

Getting Your 2-Stroke to Run Properly
2-Stroke Carburetor Set-up Technique

In the articles there are also links to websites that discuss the best methods to "Plug Chop" your scooter (how to read the performance of your scooter by looking at the spark-plug)


I hope this helps all those who are trying to do the same as I am, just one favour I would ask of you in return is to post any ideas/findings/corrections that you have to make this thread a "one-stop-shop" for all things ET2 related.


All the best

Fabio

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Given that this is the cheapest 'go faster' option, do you think I'd be correct in assuming that when a scooter is advertised as 'de-restricted' (but no details like add-ons), that this is what has in fact been done?

Geeza

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Hi Geeza

Yes I'd suggest so, and possibly the "air confuser" pipe has been cut off the stock exhaust.


Fabio

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Just an update and an interesting development.

Today, I took the day off work (I work in the Motor Trade and today for me is the "quiet before the storm" of the busiest few days of the year, the plate change on March 1st to "11" registration) and during the day I had an hour or so to spare so I decided to remove the drive belt cover from the ET70 (as I now call it!, hehe) to check on the drive belt wear.

You may remember that I had problems initially with premature drive belt wear which reduced the scooter's top-speed significantly...... over the past few weeks I've noticed a slight drop in the top-speed being attained to an indicated 54/55mph with the flyscreen installed.

It really doesn't have much effect on my riding because even though I set myself the challenge of getting the scoot to go as fast as it could, the reality of my riding profile is that rarely do I take it on a road where then current top-speed of 55mph is insufficient, and when I do its only for short bursts.

So... my reason for opening up the drive belt casing was to check on the condition of the belt and also to see if there was build up of "belt dust" as I'd experienced previously. The scooter has now traveled in excess of 1000miles since the belt was fitted and the corroded variator/pulley problems were sorted out.

I also wanted to check on the condition of the "drilled-out" rollers and give them a bit of a clean up.

I removed the cover and was very pleased to see a very clean looking drive belt compartment and a drive belt that looked in good condition, I can only assume that the repairs that I carried out on the variator and driven-pulley faces to make them smoother was successful.

I removed the variator and took out the rollers to inspect them for wear and I'm pleased to report that they look almost as good as when they were drilled-out and fitted, so again a success there too!

I had a general clean up of the rollers and the variator "roller cage" (I'm guessing that's what its called but if not then hopefully you'll probably understand what I mean), refitted the drive-belt into position and torqued back up the variator nut.

Finally, I had a good dust out of the drive belt compartment and lightly greased with "white-grease" all of the bits that needed greasing.

I was going to open up the clutch assembly and have a nosey in there too at the condition of things but I'd forgotten to borrow the clutch locking tool that I used previously so I left the clutch well alone.

And, here is where the interesting development bit comes in.............

When I fitted the stiffer clutch springs back in December here is what I wrote I noticed that when I put the drive-belt cover back on and went to test the scooter up and down the street that the clutch bite was a lot more how I originally expected it to be, and I've realised now that when I posted back in December about the improvements with the new clutch springs that I was only getting a portion of the benefit.

How does this figure???

How can I ride the scoot for 1000+ miles since the initial fitting of the new springs and only now be seeing the true benefit of them??

I know that I've been working in the drive-belt "area" but I didn't touch the clutch assembly and all of a sudden it seems to have found its originally desired levels.

Fabio

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Interesting, reminds me of my dad!

Couple of ideas: head skim, weight reduction, gas flowing carb etc (i.e. Shaved emulsion tube).

You need to get the upgear kit; changing the rear ride hieght also increases your chances of falling off!

Good work Fabio!

Hehe....

Is your Dad good looking, charming and resourceful too?.......


Joking aside, thank you for your comments and I'll look into those suggestions.

Its good to know that there are members that are still reading this thread and still getting something from it 6000 hits on....

All the very best

Fabio

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The best of the modern is an easy follow, well done!

Hi Fabio

Great project thread, love your enthusiasm for experimentation, and all the pics really lets us follow what you are doing and pick up some nice tricks

The only comment I would make is that I get the impression your understanding of the carb needle is unclear, although I could be wrong as you seem to be adjusting it correctly.

The needle controls the flow of fuel (not air) through the main jet at partial throttle openings. So raising the needle (placing the clip on a lower position) flows more fuel, giving a richer mixture. It is the slide that controls air flow (incidentally changing the shape of the slide on the airbox side is another tuning option, but that would be getting into racer territory!).

From the last pic I saw you seem to be running a little rich so, if you think it is necessary, you might try dropping the needle a notch or two the next time you are in the carb. If you have run out of adjustment on the needle, you would need to go down one size on the main jet and raise the needle to the richest setting and fine tune from there.

I certainly wouldn't try that hotter plug again, that is the way of the melted piston.

Don't know if you have seen it already but this is the best explanation I have seen so far on the contra spring http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8960

Keep having fun and here's hoping you find an affordable gear-up option

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Hi Gazz

Yes that's my understanding of the needle position, I think what I've done in my excitement for making the notes for MV is type "air" instead of "fuel" on one of the posts , I've corrected this now and can only thank you for spotting it!!

Re the contra spring web-link, yes I've already seen that website and found it to be very informative.

I've experimented quite a lot on the main jet size and the needle clip settings since some of the earlier posts on this thread and have now found a balance between the two that I'm now quite happy with.

I'm hoping to find a cheap gear-up kit, if there is anyone out there with one for reasonable money then please let me know.

Thanks once again

Fabio

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Ah thought it might be a typo, are you going to update your wiki too?

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Yep, already done it.

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Fabio:
Can I say I have read every report you've made on the ET2 challenge and it is rare to find such enthusiasm and dedication. Well done!
I have been down a similar (but less well structured ) path with my ET2 and very gradually upgraded it. Started with deristricting the transmission and an SP3 exhaust (40mph) a DR 70cc kit (52mph), new reeds (52mph) then a Dellorto 17.5mm +82 MJ (56mph + much better accel). I've changed the weights but confess after fitting the ones that came with the SP3 I can't remember what they are now (see, not structured or disciplined, doh! )
The scoot is quite fast up to 50 and quite soon reaches 55-56 but will not rev more. As it IS fairly fast to max out I suspect there is more speed there somewhere and I too have thought of gear-ups but cost and complexity is stopping me just now.
Also, I have seen several of the big names in scooter add ons offering 'Unlimited' CDIs and wonder if this refers to the cost or their ability to increase (if I'm up against one) a rev limit?
Did you ever get a chance to try one? I wondered if it is even possible to make a smooth limit in the revs, would it not manifest as a misfire or hesitation? Very little I can find on this subject. Grateful for anyone's input.
BTW Fabio, thanks for the help a few weeks ago when I was really struggling with cutting out at speed, very odd really, it was a fuel leak at the carb which I'm amazed I didn't see sooner. The brass inlet was loose in the carb body! I took it out, got it clean and 'Araldited' it back, it's fine so far!
All the best,
Steveod21

. Hi Steve

Thanks for the great comments.

When I started the thread back in October I thought that people would laugh at me a bit.... "why are you bothering" "just go and get a real scooter" etc etc.

I'd not owned scooters before (or any PTW for that matter) and I must admit that I had very little knowledge of mechanical things full-stop (probably still don't hehe!)

I started the thread for a few reasons, one was to keep me motivated to achieving a decent speed, but the main reason was to collect as much info as I could about 2 Stroke 50cc scooters and create a resource for my future use, but also for the benefit of any other riders out there who had the same interest and wanted to know "how to do it".

There is some good info on the internet generally, but you have to wade through pages and pages of rubbish to get to the good bits, so it made a lot of sense while I was writing the almost "daily" notes to try to collect it all together in one thread.

5-6 months on what really has surprised me is the number of people who have read the thread (almost 6500 now) and have got some benefit from it.

Almost daily I get some comment, email or PM about it... and it makes me realise just how useful it is.

This is why I encourage all MVers with constructive input to add to the thread so that it can become a one stop "document" for ET2 owners. Even for any 50cc 2T owner it should be useful because most of the principles apply to any 2T scoot (even some things I tried apply to 4T scoots too).
. Yes I'm just waiting to somehow drop on a cheap kit, I originally thought about tyre profiles in some "mad professor" way of getting a higher top-end but eventually realised the silliness of that idea after unsuccessfully trying two or three times!
. I purchased a 2nd hand CDI unit off ebay (£3 I think it was, but I'm still trying to find details on how to modify it, so at the moment I can't say either way!
. My pleasure, If I can help anyone in anyway I will !

Thank you once again for the very nice comments.

Fabio

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Hi Fabio, how come the oversized rear tyre scheme didn't work as a way of altering the gearing? Lack of physical space? Was the tyre rubbing as the suspension compressed? It doesn't seem like the worst way to change the gearing, at least it's simple!

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Hi Simonnn

Yes it was a physical space problem... also compounded by unavailability of certain profile sizes.

The stock rear tyre is 120/70-10, there doesn't seem to be many 120/80-10 tyres available Then I struggled after that to get a 120/80 to try

Fabio

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Any new info on the CDI?

We have a customer here who bought all the same performance parts that have yielded us 65mph, but he can't get his machine to rev out. Even with 3.8gr weights. After lots of phone calls and trials, he can't get his ET2 to exceed 42mph.

The only thing I can I think of is a restricted CDI or a backwards piston.

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Hi Motorsport

I'm not at all convinced that the 2T ET2 was ever fitted with a restricted CDI, I've looked, and messed, and asked, and swapped....but no benefits gained.... have you asked CheekyThomas?.... he's a bit of a guru on this sort of thing, and will know "top of his head" what was fitted to which scoots I'm sure...let me know if you find out!!

.....from what I've read it appears that the CDI was only restricted on the 4T scoots.

Having said that....only reaching a top speed of 42 doesn't sound right at all (are you saying its a 50cc and not a kitted 70cc?)

Fabio

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He's got the Malossi 70cc, Dellorto 19mm carb, sito exhaust, and malossi over-range kit.

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Wow!!

He's got everything he needs to do at least 65+.

I wonder....what is the acceleration like up to 42mph? good or struggling?

And you say that it won't rev up high??

Fabio

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Thinking a bit more about it now...

The one item I'm not sure about is the Sito.... is this a good exhaust?

I had a nagging doubt in the back of my mind that I'd read somewhere about problems with the Sito.

I've just googled "ET2 Sito" and found a couple of negative comments saying that they weren't consistent (a bit hit or miss depending on how its fitted on a ET2)

I'm not at all sure on this, but at least its some thoughts

Hope this helps

Fabio

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Sito fitment has always been more art than science, but the power has been good.

Fabio !
took my et2 (2002 ) out yesterday and found a lovely straight empty road next to the sydney (australia) airport and vessel terminal - as it was an 80 kph road I managed to gun it up 70 but it would go no faster
my bike obviously has been derestricted but i was wondering if i got the malossi 70cc kit and the malossi carb that goes with it what speed would i get to ?- Is the kit and carb it worth it for 3mph or if i upgraded the rollers too what should i expect from the max speed ?

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Hi Nescaff

A 70cc kit wouldn't increase your top speed much more than what you've already got.... but it definitely would make the acceleration a whole lot better and make the scoot much more ride-able.

For a better top end...look towards an increased air flow, a better/free-flowing exhaust, get the the carb set up correctly, and look at the condition of your drive-belt (check its width to see that it hasn't worn "thin")

Fabio

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Hi Fabio, firstly thanks for all the help advice and guidance you have shown me so far with the problems I have had with my gt 125, also the kind words you have shown me along with every one else too!. You really are superstars . Secondly, I have just found and read this thread today, and I have to say that even though I dont have an et2, I thouroughly enjoyed this and found it to be very enjoyable, fascinating and informative to read, almost makes me want to go out and find an et2 to work on . As you may remember I am new to scootering and to turning spanners, and I would love to be able to do something like you have done here only on the gt125, but at the moment I have just a bit too much on my plate to undertake such a mammoth task and also fear that I would never be able to meet the standards you have with this thread. Maybe in the future when things settle down for me a little I might be able to think again though?, anyway thankyou again and congratulations on such a great job, without people like you on mv I wouldnt be able to even begin to think about doing anything on my beloved scoot myself, Thankyou, gazza.

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Hi Gazza

Wow!!!! What fantastic words... thank you so very much.

I always try to help out where I can within my little area of knowledge (very little hehe).

A lot of the info in this thread is applicable to many a modern scoot, especially regarding carbs, variators/drive trains/drive belts, exhaust performance, etc.


I've also tried to put some of the things that I've learned into Wiki Articles....here are the 3 articles so far.....

Getting Your 2-Stroke to Run Properly

2-Stroke Carburetor Set-up Technique

How to use a MULTIMETER to diagnose electrical problems.


... and I'm also considering writing a Wiki Article on the principles of the Variator/Clutch/Belt/Rollers/Clutch Springs/Contra Spring etc.

Here are the initial drawings I've made to try to explain the workings of the CVT drive train (just noticed the spelling mistakes-Damn!), and I'm going to write some notes on how it all works, so I hope others will chip in with their knowledge too....

On another note I've recently purchased a GT125 that I'm going to start working through soon to get the most out of it!!

Once again - thank you so much for the very kind words and your support, its very much appreciated.

Fabio

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I can't believe it!!!

Over 7000 views!!!

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A Zippy 1 10 X 130/70 fits fine on an ET2. I've been running one for a while. Great tire.

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Hi BGK

Did you notice any increase in top speed/or change in the gearing?

Fabio

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I also changed the front to a 10 X 3.50 at the same time, so the front wheel is a tiny bit taller as well, thus partially correcting the overestimation of the speedometer so I'm not entirely sure. But I believe I did based on that my indicated speed only dropped about 2 mph. This combination isn't for everyone. They handle a bit differently than the standard Pirellis that I believe are great all around tires (especially in heavy rain and standing water) even though the rear wears out entirely too quickly. I like it, but some people may feel a little off.

I must say guys, this is a wicked thread to read...

I bought my 2001 Et2 about six months ago and this thread became my inspiration for my Vespa.

I've followed it almost step by step, but stumbled across a problem though, don't know how to adjust the oil metering?

I just installed Polini corsa bore, dellorto 17.5 carb and Leo Vince sp3 exhaust. A few different parts

Have a look at this thread>>>> ET2 oil pump adjustment

First off, Fabio, thanks so much for this. I am new to Vespas, and just bought a very used ET2. I have been unable to get it to start reliably, and was ready to drive it into the river and leave it for dead, but this has inspired me to stick with it.

Now for my question: It looks like a lot of people have installed a Dellorto 17.5 in place of the stock Weber on older ET2s. Wondering if everyone had to do the drilling mod that Fabio described, or if the slightly newer ET2s can just bolt on the Dellorto?

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It depends on the individual carb that you get I suppose. The one that I got hold of had a brass blanking plate fitted into the vacuum port, I just drilled it out to fit a small union that I took from the weber.

Fabio

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OMG - I've just realised that this thread has had almost 8500 reads!!

Fabio

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