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Fri, 29 Dec 2006 22:51:05 +0000

Addicted
Joined: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 17:20:41 +0000
Posts: 534
Location: Raleigh, NC, USA
 
Addicted
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Location: Raleigh, NC, USA
Fri, 29 Dec 2006 22:51:05 +0000 linkquote
After a 15 mile ride home from work, after cooling off for a few minutes, my GT started making a mooing noise. Seriously, it sounded like a small, sad cow. Or maybe it was more like really well-tuned farts.

It'd make the noise for a second or two, be silent for about 30 seconds, then make the noise again. The period while it was quiet seemed to be getting a little longer, when I went inside. I came back out about three minutes later (with a flashlight), and either the noise had stopped entirely, or the quiet period was exceeding ~two minutes.

The sound seemed to be coming from the transmission, or somewhere just above it; I felt a very faint vibration through the cowl during the noise.

I looked under the pet carrier, and up under the cowling. Nothing was noticeably leaking or hanging loose.

Why is it doing this? Should I be worried?
Fri, 29 Dec 2006 22:56:56 +0000

Ossessionato
Consume Less & Share More
Joined: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:21:07 +0000
Posts: 3130
Location: New Jersey, USA
 
Ossessionato
Consume Less & Share More
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Posts: 3130
Location: New Jersey, USA
Fri, 29 Dec 2006 22:56:56 +0000 linkquote
Are you sure it was mooing, or was it booing? Check under your bed, and in your closet, before retiring. Be afraid, be very afraid.

Others have posted about this paranormal scooter behavior. You might be able to find some info with a search.
Sat, 30 Dec 2006 00:33:13 +0000

Member
2006 BV 250,2007 Ducati Multistrada,2007 1098s on order!!!
Joined: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 03:52:40 +0000
Posts: 25

 
Member
2006 BV 250,2007 Ducati Multistrada,2007 1098s on order!!!
Joined: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 03:52:40 +0000
Posts: 25

Sat, 30 Dec 2006 00:33:13 +0000 linkquote
Did you just fill it up? check your Carbon canister it is probably just return vapor, if it is the little black box mooing that is normal.

Erik
Sat, 30 Dec 2006 01:53:49 +0000

Ossessionato
GTS, LX, VSD, VSX, VNX, LD 125, Chucky, LI125
Joined: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 02:47:58 +0000
Posts: 4181
Location: San Jose CA
 
Ossessionato
GTS, LX, VSD, VSX, VNX, LD 125, Chucky, LI125
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Location: San Jose CA
Sat, 30 Dec 2006 01:53:49 +0000 linkquote
My bike 'moos' too.....actually 'sighs' would be descriptive.

I was too embarrassed to bring it up thou.....

Runs fine thou.

R

8)
Sat, 30 Dec 2006 02:39:11 +0000

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2020 Honda NC750DCT ABS
Joined: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 18:26:33 +0000
Posts: 6899
Location: Maple Grove, MN
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2020 Honda NC750DCT ABS
Joined: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 18:26:33 +0000
Posts: 6899
Location: Maple Grove, MN
Sat, 30 Dec 2006 02:39:11 +0000 linkquote
My GT 'farted' a couple of times one day in the summer then never did it again. Oddly it was the same day it was discussed and dismissed as a "don't care" here on the forum. I don't think it's happened since.
Sat, 30 Dec 2006 02:43:30 +0000

Molto Verboso
Joined: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 23:42:08 +0000
Posts: 1139
Location: Whittier, CA
 
Molto Verboso
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Location: Whittier, CA
Sat, 30 Dec 2006 02:43:30 +0000 linkquote
Mooing
Sounds like your scoot needs to be milked

seriously, It sounds like the cooling system bleeding off air, dr
Sat, 30 Dec 2006 14:24:17 +0000

Addicted
Joined: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 17:20:41 +0000
Posts: 534
Location: Raleigh, NC, USA
 
Addicted
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Location: Raleigh, NC, USA
Sat, 30 Dec 2006 14:24:17 +0000 linkquote
Sorry, addicted, no booing.

eriketucker, I'm actually down to about 1/4 tank, haven't been near the filling station in a few days.

The cooling system sounds very plausible. I think yesterday may be the warmest it's been since I put on the termoscud, that I've ridden it without taking the time to roll up the 'scud. I've noticed that it does seem to warm up faster with the 'scud in place.

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one with a scooter with a secret bovine fantasy life! I'll go ahead with my scooting plans for today.
Sat, 30 Dec 2006 14:31:34 +0000

Ossessionato
Piaggio BV 250
Joined: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 03:45:35 +0000
Posts: 2348
Location: Alameda, CA
 
Ossessionato
Piaggio BV 250
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Sat, 30 Dec 2006 14:31:34 +0000 linkquote
My BV will occasionally make a sound that is suspiciously similar - or maybe that was the day I was parked next to the dairy farm........
Sat, 30 Dec 2006 14:42:25 +0000

Molto Verboso
2005 Vespa GT 200
Joined: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 21:38:43 +0000
Posts: 1007
Location: Near Tyler, Texas
 
Molto Verboso
2005 Vespa GT 200
Joined: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 21:38:43 +0000
Posts: 1007
Location: Near Tyler, Texas
Sat, 30 Dec 2006 14:42:25 +0000 linkquote
You think that mooing is mysterious? Speaking from experience, if you want a real mystery to solve, pack your battery-operated Gillette M3 razor too tightly in your toiletries kit for a trip, then try to find the strange buzzing and vibration throughout the whole scooter, even with the ignition turned off. That should keep you busy for about an hour while you check all your electrical systems.
Sat, 30 Dec 2006 14:44:46 +0000

Ossessionato
2005 Dragon Red Vespa ET4 Speedster
Joined: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 16:39:58 +0000
Posts: 2109
Location: Rappahannock Co., Virginia
 
Ossessionato
2005 Dragon Red Vespa ET4 Speedster
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Sat, 30 Dec 2006 14:44:46 +0000 linkquote
The air intake into my clutch and belt housing had come disconnected some time ago without me knowing it. Recently I decided to change my rollers and belt, and after taking the transmission cover off, heard a rattling noise in it. Started to shake it and seeds started coming out, 100's of them. I think a chipmonk was storing food in the case for winter. No damage to the scooter. Hose has been reconnected and the situation has been resolved.

Check your hose. If it's diconnected, take off the cover and shake it. Could be a small cow crawled in there.
Sat, 30 Dec 2006 15:03:36 +0000

Addicted
Joined: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 17:20:41 +0000
Posts: 534
Location: Raleigh, NC, USA
 
Addicted
Joined: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 17:20:41 +0000
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Location: Raleigh, NC, USA
Sat, 30 Dec 2006 15:03:36 +0000 linkquote
FarSideMan wrote:
You think that mooing is mysterious? Speaking from experience, if you want a real mystery to solve, pack your battery-operated Gillette M3 razor too tightly in your toiletries kit for a trip, then try to find the strange buzzing and vibration throughout the whole scooter, even with the ignition turned off. That should keep you busy for about an hour while you check all your electrical systems.


I don't use a razor, but I'll keep that in mind if I pack anything else that's battery operated.
Sat, 30 Dec 2006 16:17:56 +0000

Hooked
Joined: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 02:16:03 +0000
Posts: 447

 
Hooked
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Sat, 30 Dec 2006 16:17:56 +0000 linkquote
If you've checked for a hidden cow and found none, then it's the gasoline vapor recovery system. On a warm day and/or after a long-ish ride, the pressure relief valve should make an intermittent groaning noise. Some riders think it sounds like a small electric motor, while others have called it a groan, sigh or fart. It's especially noticeable in a relatively quiet and closed-off area like a garage, or if you're standing near the bike a minute or two after shutting down. It's less common on a full tank.

It's normal, and much more likely than a farm animal problem. On a very hot day, the noise may be accompanied by a bit of gasoline odor. There has been some discussion of this over the last year or two. If you want to know more, search the archives for "fuel vapor recovery" and you should find some of the old threads HTH
Sat, 30 Dec 2006 16:18:45 +0000

Hooked
Smoke Grey "Il Grigio" 2006 GT 200L
Joined: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 22:29:17 +0000
Posts: 203
Location: Belle River, ON, CANADA
 
Hooked
Smoke Grey "Il Grigio" 2006 GT 200L
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Posts: 203
Location: Belle River, ON, CANADA
Sat, 30 Dec 2006 16:18:45 +0000 linkquote
The fuel pump creates a low vacuum in the tank as you ride. When the engine is off, it takes a few seconds for the atmospheric pressure to equalize the tank vacuum. Try loosening your gas cap when this happens - might be the answer.

I know it did for my GT200.
Sat, 30 Dec 2006 16:30:35 +0000

Hooked
'80 p125x
Joined: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 21:39:22 +0000
Posts: 347
Location: kansas city
 
Hooked
'80 p125x
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Location: kansas city
Sat, 30 Dec 2006 16:30:35 +0000 linkquote
+1 on the above comment. My ET will do that on a very hot day after a long ride; I just open the gas cap and it goes away after it depressurizes. Even my Duc will Moo after a long ride (hee hee).
Sat, 30 Dec 2006 17:50:08 +0000

Hooked
Joined: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 02:16:03 +0000
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Hooked
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Sat, 30 Dec 2006 17:50:08 +0000 linkquote
True, if you want to defeat the purpose of the recovery system then just open the cap. Doing so releases gasoline vapor into the atmosphere, which is not good for the environment (hence the existence of the vapor recovery system) but if you want to stop the moo-ing, opening the cap will def stop the sound.
Sat, 30 Dec 2006 17:50:49 +0000

Hooked
2007 Vespa GT60 1975 Vespa Rally 200 1962 Vespa VBB
Joined: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 16:10:53 +0000
Posts: 106
Location: Atlanta
 
Hooked
2007 Vespa GT60 1975 Vespa Rally 200 1962 Vespa VBB
Joined: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 16:10:53 +0000
Posts: 106
Location: Atlanta
Sat, 30 Dec 2006 17:50:49 +0000 linkquote
FarSideMan wrote:
You think that mooing is mysterious? Speaking from experience, if you want a real mystery to solve, pack your battery-operated Gillette M3 razor too tightly in your toiletries kit for a trip, then try to find the strange buzzing and vibration throughout the whole scooter, even with the ignition turned off. That should keep you busy for about an hour while you check all your electrical systems.
Wondering how you felt after you realize the culprit..I been in those kind of scenarios too many times...Thats when I wish I am limber enough to kick my self.
Sat, 30 Dec 2006 17:54:22 +0000

Moderatore Dedicato
GTS250 Gilera Runner SP180
Joined: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:36:52 +0000
Posts: 5209
Location: Kent,England
 
Moderatore Dedicato
GTS250 Gilera Runner SP180
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Location: Kent,England
Sat, 30 Dec 2006 17:54:22 +0000 linkquote
CatMoran wrote:
I don't use a razor, but I'll keep that in mind if I pack anything else that's battery operated.
You want to watch that.....
Sat, 30 Dec 2006 18:26:00 +0000

Hooked
Smoke Grey "Il Grigio" 2006 GT 200L
Joined: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 22:29:17 +0000
Posts: 203
Location: Belle River, ON, CANADA
 
Hooked
Smoke Grey "Il Grigio" 2006 GT 200L
Joined: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 22:29:17 +0000
Posts: 203
Location: Belle River, ON, CANADA
Sat, 30 Dec 2006 18:26:00 +0000 linkquote
Bzzz wrote:
True, if you want to defeat the purpose of the recovery system then just open the cap. Doing so releases gasoline vapor into the atmosphere, which is not good for the environment (hence the existence of the vapor recovery system) but if you want to stop the moo-ing, opening the cap will def stop the sound.
Actually I think that is only on units equipped for sale in California . They have a slightly different recovery system designed to conform to the emission standards of California, which are more stringent than the rest of North America.

The releasing of the gas cap sucks air into the tank to eqaulize the slight negative pressure in the standard units. Hence no vapour release.
If you leave it alone it just mooooos until equalized. Normally a couple of minutes.

The only time I have noticed a release of vapour is on a very hot day, when the machine is standing and not operational.
That is due to expasion of the fuel and a slight vaporization that takes place when the pressure is released. Typical of volatile liquids, such as gasoline.
Sat, 30 Dec 2006 21:02:09 +0000

Molto Verboso
2005 Vespa GT 200
Joined: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 21:38:43 +0000
Posts: 1007
Location: Near Tyler, Texas
 
Molto Verboso
2005 Vespa GT 200
Joined: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 21:38:43 +0000
Posts: 1007
Location: Near Tyler, Texas
Sat, 30 Dec 2006 21:02:09 +0000 linkquote
purpleGORILLA wrote:
FarSideMan wrote:
You think that mooing is mysterious? Speaking from experience, if you want a real mystery to solve, pack your battery-operated Gillette M3 razor too tightly in your toiletries kit for a trip, then try to find the strange buzzing and vibration throughout the whole scooter, even with the ignition turned off. That should keep you busy for about an hour while you check all your electrical systems.
Wondering how you felt after you realize the culprit..I been in those kind of scenarios too many times...Thats when I wish I am limber enough to kick my self.
Well, I felt like you said...like an idiot. I knew just knew I had screwed something up when I put the ignition key in my pocket, and the scoot was still buzzing and vibrating. I didn't find the source of the problem until I completely unpacked my scoot, wiggling wires and fuses, looking at everything with a flashlight, removing the toiletries kit from the front rack, and placing the toiletries kit on the ground. That's when I noticed my toiletries were vibrating, and put 2 + 3 together. It was especially frustrating because I was testing my packing skills, scooter balance, etc., for my first long scooter ride to Louisiana, and was worried that this "mystery" would keep me from going.
Sat, 30 Dec 2006 21:45:19 +0000

Addicted
Joined: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 17:20:41 +0000
Posts: 534
Location: Raleigh, NC, USA
 
Addicted
Joined: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 17:20:41 +0000
Posts: 534
Location: Raleigh, NC, USA
Sat, 30 Dec 2006 21:45:19 +0000 linkquote
Bzzz wrote:
True, if you want to defeat the purpose of the recovery system then just open the cap. Doing so releases gasoline vapor into the atmosphere, which is not good for the environment (hence the existence of the vapor recovery system) but if you want to stop the moo-ing, opening the cap will def stop the sound.
I have the evap hose detached from the carburetor. So there must be another vapor recovery gadget or two?
Sun, 31 Dec 2006 00:11:06 +0000

Hooked
Joined: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 02:16:03 +0000
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Hooked
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Sun, 31 Dec 2006 00:11:06 +0000 linkquote
CatMoran wrote:
I have the evap hose detached from the carburetor. So there must be another vapor recovery gadget or two?
The system goes like this:

Tank===>canister===>carburetor


A relief valve lets vapor escape the tank (moo sound) and the vapor passes to the canister. Upon starting the engine, another valve opens and the vapor passes into the carburetor to be burned. It's a one-way trip. Disconnecting either line just causes the vapor to go somewhere else, but the moo remains.

This system is standard on GTs sold in the USA. If you buy a US-spec GT in any state, it should have it. The system was placed there by Vespa in the interest of limiting evaporative emissions from their products and is not the result of any regulatory requirements. California units are no different.

I am curious: This is a GT we're taking about, not an ET. It sounds like the system is still intact. From the nature of the post, it sounds like you're not super-familiar with the system. So my question is this: Why did you disconnect the hose?
Sun, 31 Dec 2006 00:40:10 +0000

Addicted
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Location: Raleigh, NC, USA
 
Addicted
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Sun, 31 Dec 2006 00:40:10 +0000 linkquote
Bzzz wrote:
The system goes like this:

Tank===>canister===>carburetor


A relief valve lets vapor escape the tank (moo sound) and the vapor passes to the canister. Upon starting the engine, another valve opens and the vapor passes into the carburetor to be burned. It's a one-way trip. Disconnecting either line just causes the vapor to go somewhere else, but the moo remains.

This system is standard on GTs sold in the USA. If you buy a US-spec GT in any state, it should have it. The system was placed there by Vespa in the interest of limiting evaporative emissions from their products and is not the result of any regulatory requirements. California units are no different.

I am curious: This is a GT we're taking about, not an ET. It sounds like the system is still intact. From the nature of the post, it sounds like you're not super-familiar with the system. So my question is this: Why did you disconnect the hose?
Thanks for the explanation!

As for why -- a few months back I started having trouble with the Vespa. It was hard to start and it stalled several times. This thread suggested disconnecting the evap hose. I did, and the problems immediately went away. Viola.
Sun, 31 Dec 2006 01:00:21 +0000

Hooked
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Hooked
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Sun, 31 Dec 2006 01:00:21 +0000 linkquote
Couple other questions: Did the problems start for no apparent reason, or was there a specific cause? For example, do you recall the gas tank being accidentally over-filled? Or maybe the tank was filled to the very top and then the scooter was parked before it had been ridden very far? Or did the scooter, by any chance, either fall over or get leaned very far over to one side?

Also, are you planning on reconnecting it? Or did you fit something to the hose and the carb inlet which would make reconnection a hassle?
Sun, 31 Dec 2006 05:04:46 +0000

Petty Tyrant
0:7 And counting
Joined: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 05:12:11 +0000
Posts: 33166
Location: Bay Area, California
 
Petty Tyrant
0:7 And counting
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Sun, 31 Dec 2006 05:04:46 +0000 linkquote
I'm going on record with the statement that the evap hose from all pre-GTS modern Vespas should be left disconnected. Not because I'm an environmental nogoodnick (I'm not. Really. Truly.) but because the system is so poorly designed as to render a huge percentage of scooters unusable for long periods of time because of a simple mistake (like overfilling the gas tank, which in and of itself is also very poorly designed).

Realistically, I believe the environmental impact from this, with our relatively small number of scooters, is negligible and well below the noise threshold. Hate me if you want, but I wouldn't hesitate to recommend that every pre-GTS owner disconnect their evap hose whether they're having a problem or not. Too many people have been stranded by this. I say enough is enough. If it renders our scooters inoperable, f*ck it.
Sun, 31 Dec 2006 13:08:33 +0000

Molto Verboso
2005 Vespa GT 200
Joined: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 21:38:43 +0000
Posts: 1007
Location: Near Tyler, Texas
 
Molto Verboso
2005 Vespa GT 200
Joined: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 21:38:43 +0000
Posts: 1007
Location: Near Tyler, Texas
Sun, 31 Dec 2006 13:08:33 +0000 linkquote
Jess, I agree with you 100%. I removed the evaporative hose connection from my GT's carb 6 months ago, and haven't had any stalling or starting issues. To keep dust and dirt from entering the carb, I've covered the inlet on the carb with the foam rubber tip from a ladies' eye shadow applicator stick, and fastened it with a small nylon cable tie, although I doubt it would slip off without it. I bought a package of them for less than $2.00 at Wal-Mart.
Sun, 31 Dec 2006 15:33:48 +0000

Addicted
Joined: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 17:20:41 +0000
Posts: 534
Location: Raleigh, NC, USA
 
Addicted
Joined: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 17:20:41 +0000
Posts: 534
Location: Raleigh, NC, USA
Sun, 31 Dec 2006 15:33:48 +0000 linkquote
Bzzz wrote:
Couple other questions: Did the problems start for no apparent reason, or was there a specific cause? For example, do you recall the gas tank being accidentally over-filled? Or maybe the tank was filled to the very top and then the scooter was parked before it had been ridden very far? Or did the scooter, by any chance, either fall over or get leaned very far over to one side?

Also, are you planning on reconnecting it? Or did you fit something to the hose and the carb inlet which would make reconnection a hassle?
D'oh! I meant to say in my last post. It was a triple play, actually. The tank over-filled (on my first fillup, no less), I dropped it (literally, I tripped over the floorboard hump dismounting barely a week after I bought it), and I over-filled it again the same day.

I don't plan to reconnect it.

I love FarSideMan's eye shadow applicator idea -- I think it's time to run to Target and buy a pack.

For the record, when I told the service manager at the 625m service that the hose was disconnected, he recommended that it stay that way.
Sun, 31 Dec 2006 16:43:46 +0000

Hooked
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Hooked
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Sun, 31 Dec 2006 16:43:46 +0000 linkquote
That explains it, Thanks Cat. Yes, definitely put a filter on there.

Seems it's always one of two things: Over-filling, which can force excess fuel into the vapor line. Or tipping, allowing gasoline to drain into the vapor line. Avoiding these two things will prevent the problem, but that's not always possible. If you do tip it or over-fill, immediately go for a nice long ride if possible, and you should not have a problem.

As a backup plan, it helps to know how to get un-stranded if it does get to the point of stalling/sputtering. The idea being that Step One is to get home.

Unfortunately, it usually happens in congested areas. But if you are lucky enough to be near an open stretch of road/street, try this: Your scooter is flooded, so twist the throttle fully open and crank to get it started. If you can do that, keep it running by carefully keeping the throttle slightly open while firmly braking with the left (rear) brake. Immediately go for a ride, as long as possible and as fast as possible on the nearest stretch of open road.

A mile or two at 45-55 MPH always did the trick when it happened on our club rides over the last few years. Note that this only worked for us on GTs. Seems you could ride the ET all day and it would still be jacked up until the proper hose was located and removed. I don't know about the LX models.

But it may re-occur soon after stopping again, since the system is probably still a bit wet. So either keep riding for a while or go right home. Once there, either let the system dry out and try to avoid tipping/overfilling again, or disconnect the system as described above.
Tue, 02 Jan 2007 05:10:25 +0000

Enthusiast
'Oberon' 200 GT
Joined: Sun, 01 Oct 2006 02:12:31 +0000
Posts: 61
Location: Spokane, WA USA
 
Enthusiast
'Oberon' 200 GT
Joined: Sun, 01 Oct 2006 02:12:31 +0000
Posts: 61
Location: Spokane, WA USA
Tue, 02 Jan 2007 05:10:25 +0000 linkquote
FarSideMan wrote:
You think that mooing is mysterious? Speaking from experience, if you want a real mystery to solve, pack your battery-operated Gillette M3 razor too tightly in your toiletries kit for a trip, then try to find the strange buzzing and vibration throughout the whole scooter, even with the ignition turned off. That should keep you busy for about an hour while you check all your electrical systems.
I work for the TSA. We find these on a frequent basis in luggage. and things other than razors that buzz...
   

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