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Riffraft wrote:
I thought that if i'm leaning into a nice long curve the foot pegs would scrape. I assumed that to be the case since the pegs are lower and stick out from the side of the bike.
You've really got to be hitting a curve seriously to scrape. I have yet to scrape mine, and I take corners pretty good. Besides, if your pegs are installed properly, they will kick up if they do hit. Just make sure they fold up next to the bracket angle, at the same angle.
Enjoy the ride. It just got better. Laughing emoticon
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gsheff wrote:
Riffraft wrote:
I thought that if i'm leaning into a nice long curve the foot pegs would scrape. I assumed that to be the case since the pegs are lower and stick out from the side of the bike.
You've really got to be hitting a curve seriously to scrape. I have yet to scrape mine, and I take corners pretty good. Besides, if your pegs are installed properly, they will kick up if they do hit. Just make sure they fold up next to the bracket angle, at the same angle.
Enjoy the ride. It just got better. Laughing emoticon
scraped mine a few times this weekend AGAIN. Oh I do fold them up when I remember when playing hard in the twistys. Hate it when I forget though.
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I do have them installed so they will fold up at the same angle.
I'll give leaving them down a try tomorrow. I usually don't hit the curses that hard during the week (no twists , but there are a couple that I lean into pretty steep. Seems like I lean the most when I make a left across a multi-lane road. Probably more then necessary, but it's so fun .
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>I don't carry passengers. Maybe one could run along behind me and hold onto the trailer hitch...?

Nah Larry, you should get a horse saddle and tie it down to the top of the trailer. (Could you imagine the cop's expression?)
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old as dirt wrote:
gsheff wrote:
Riffraft wrote:
I thought that if i'm leaning into a nice long curve the foot pegs would scrape. I assumed that to be the case since the pegs are lower and stick out from the side of the bike.
You've really got to be hitting a curve seriously to scrape. I have yet to scrape mine, and I take corners pretty good. Besides, if your pegs are installed properly, they will kick up if they do hit. Just make sure they fold up next to the bracket angle, at the same angle.
Enjoy the ride. It just got better. Laughing emoticon
scraped mine a few times this weekend AGAIN. Oh I do fold them up when I remember when playing hard in the twistys. Hate it when I forget though.
+1 - I scrape mine quite a few times because quite frankly some of the turns take me by surprise. A lot of variable radius roads here - think parabola. Had my foot hit the tire once, dragged my heel a few times...
But I'd never give the pegs up. Nope. It feels weird to have my legs tucked in anymore.
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Until I heard from our European friend about his Quasigonzo peg (which he still has not posted, citing his poor English which is nonsense because he writes better English than most Americans), I had been focusing only on STRETCHING a passenger's legs. I had not even thought about short passengers.

While this is not going to help a 4' tall child, it seems that just adding another hole to the UPP would be useful for people who can't quite flatfoot the floorpad and who want to spead their feet out wider.
Now with an additional peg location higher than the floorboard.
Now with an additional peg location higher than the floorboard.
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Passenger peg brainstorming
Perdon por no escribir en ingles.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

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Si alguien esta interesado puedo subir el brico, pero tendría que hacerlo en castellano.
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Re: Passenger peg brainstorming
soloysinnick wrote:
Perdon por no escribir en ingles.

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Si alguien esta interesado puedo subir el brico, pero tendría que hacerlo en castellano.
Hopefully translators aren't totally inept...
¿Qué es el brico. ¿Cuál es el nombre de este descanso para los pies y dónde se puede conseguir?
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rjeffb wrote:
Until I heard from our European friend about his Quasigonzo peg (which he still has not posted, citing his poor English which is nonsense because he writes better English than most Americans), I had been focusing only on STRETCHING a passenger's legs. I had not even thought about short passengers.

While this is not going to help a 4' tall child, it seems that just adding another hole to the UPP would be useful for people who can't quite flatfoot the floorpad and who want to spead their feet out wider.
Did that online service ever get your prototype UPP back to you?
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It sure looks interesting, whatever it is! BTW, soloysinnick is not the European member I've been talking about so this peg idea is totally new to me.

The UPP prototype is due any day now.
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Hello from Europe, Finland!

As rjeffb told here I really have one solution for passengers with short legs. I had to solve this problem because my both kids (son 11 years and daughter 9 years) and wife as well have short legs.

At the moment I'm driving around my extremely beautiful home country Finland. I only have iPad with me and this machine is too Clumsy for communication (only writers opinion ) I can try to attach here one or two links to photos and I'll get back to you with many more photos and whole new thread when I'm back home.

https://dl.dropbox.com/0/view/aywvqs7g2kp0379/Mopoilua/Photo%2027.6.2011%2017.38.03.jpeg

https://dl.dropbox.com/0/view/k51g3yz0s0vfh7i/Mopoilua/Photo%2027.6.2011%2017.37.38.jpeg

https://dl.dropbox.com/0/view/j0e43xeophfvk73/Mopoilua/Photo%2027.6.2011%2017.55.05.jpeg

https://dl.dropbox.com/0/view/49zj7rye93nylaa/Mopoilua/Photo%2027.6.2011%2017.36.50.jpeg

If I knew how I would have attached photos not links here??? If someone is able to do it and it's quicker way to watch them, go for it...

Sylly from the road trip
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As requested, thanks Sylly. All you have to do is click "Attach File" when writing your post, but the picture cannot be more than 800 pixels wide and usually needs to be saved with some level of compression to keep the file size small.

Syllky, I hope you do not mind, I also added two of the "component" photos you had sent me to show how you actually built this.

Check it out, guys - pretty clever, eh?
I assume that nut is there to adjust the angle of the peg.
I assume that nut is there to adjust the angle of the peg.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Sylly now has a set of UFPs up front - a picture is posted in the very first post of the main UFP thread.
Sylly now has a set of UFPs up front - a picture is posted in the very first post of the main UFP thread.
Extra picture: U-clamp to go around the frame. I'm not clear on what that L-clamp to the right is.
Extra picture: U-clamp to go around the frame. I'm not clear on what that L-clamp to the right is.
Extra picture: the two parts on the right have been welded together.
Extra picture: the two parts on the right have been welded together.
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I'm glad that you helped me rjeffb!!!

That L-clamp is from the very first prototype. Not in use anymore! I Replaced it with the parts that I welded together.

Sylly
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It looks possible to mount further down on the tube provided there is no obstruction, thus gaining a couple of inches.
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Quick question. Do you think the UPP's will work for someone that's 4 foot 8 inches tall?
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>It looks possible to mount further down on the tube provided there is no obstruction, thus gaining a couple of inches.

That's definitely a "yeah but": yeah but, any medium or long-legged passenger is still going to have their feet further aft than even putting them on the footpad, so their knee will still be jacked at an acute angle - read my following diatribe about knee angle. Certainly it gives more flexibility for short riders but the real trick for a general solution is "feet forward." I would treat this as the solution for people who cannot reach, or at least not flatfoot, the footpad.

>Quick question. Do you think the UPP's will work for someone that's 4 foot 8 inches tall?

Quick answer: beats me, but it's definitely pushing it.

The measurements of the UPP prototype I ordered assumed a rider 5'7", and that would be using the bottommost hole. The new top hole is 1.5" higher, so assuming that inseam is approximately half of height, that means ideal for a rider 5'4".

The bottom hole is also 1-3/4" further forward than the top hole. So you might do a little trig and say well that's a hypotenuse of 2.3" so the top hole accomodates a height of 4.6" shorter or 5'2".

But of course, that's not the whole story. The real issue with long-legged riders is not leg length, it's knee angle; holding your knee at an acute angle cuts off blood flow and gets annoying real quick. Doubly so when you consider that an acute knee does nothing to counter the sloping stock seat, the only solution there is to have your feet physically in front of you so the force of gravity pushing you down the seat is transmitted directly through your knee joint.

So if I can refer to the UFPs as an example, I had calculated that 5'2" to 5'4" was the absolute shortest driver that could use them, and you may recall I came up with an alternative-mounting method to get a purchaser to use them who was only 5 foot tall. Well lo and behold, she wound up removing the special bumper I installed for her and going with the usual top hole, even though she was 2" shorter than "theoretically" possible. Again, I believe this is because I was using knee angle as the limiting factor (because, let's face it, that IS the limiting factor for me and for most riders) and not really thinking about "what's the leg length that could really reach this?"

Based on this, I *know* I have at least a 2" height cushion. That again brings the shortest passenger that I have confidence in to 5'0", even though in theory it stops at 5'2".

Side note: The UPP is designed to be the ideal fit for my 5'7" girlfriend. It is not longer because it would then start to dig into my calves (and may yet!). It is pure coincidence that the UFP and the UPP have the same theoretical minimum rider height. It just worked out that way!

Still, 4'8" is an awful long way from even 5'. Certainly there are offset pegs that can close up that distance, but they are very pricey.

This is in fact why I was so insistence that Sylly post his solution, because for shorter passengers it may be exactly what the doctor ordered.
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It stands to reason that any usage of a peg for the driver holds true also for the passenger. That an extended leg is a must not only for comfort of angle but for long duration of usage.
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When I had her sit on the bike her feet seemed to be about even with (or even past) the foot pads, but she couldn't rest them on the foot pads because her legs just wouldn't wrap around the covers far enough. I'm was hoping the UPP's would eliminate the need to wrap around the covers so she would be able to reach the pegs with her legs straight.
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Riffraft wrote:
When I had her sit on the bike her feet seemed to be about even with (or even past) the foot pads, but she couldn't rest them on the foot pads because her legs just wouldn't wrap around the covers far enough. I'm was hoping the UPP's would eliminate the need to wrap around the covers so she would be able to reach the pegs with her legs straight.
Wait - she's 4'8" and she can reach the footpad? Something is not adding up here.

What are you driving, a /500 or something else? (You don't say in your signature.) If you have a /500 then her feet are NOT reaching the footpads, her feet are reaching the footpad risers - which are unique to the /500 and which will have to be removed to mount a UPP (hence defeating the point to a large degree). If she can reach the footpad on a /250 or /400, then she will probably be able to reach the top peg position of a UPP - but Sylly's solution may be the better "fit," since it is specifically designed for short passengers.

One other point - if you have your seat done, it is very likely that your passenger's pillon is going to be even higher than it is now. That makes Sylly's idea (or the "super riser" I've seen posted here: Pillion Problems On The MP3 500) even more important.
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>¿Qué es el brico. ¿Cuál es el nombre de este descanso para los pies y dónde se puede conseguir?

En otro palabres...
QUE ES ESO?

y tambien me mucho gusto si poste usted los photograficos de su zapata con este footpeg. Como ellos estan trabajando?

Y por favor escuse usted me espanol malo!
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Sorry, I forgot to mention I have a MP3 500. When you say the footpad risers have to come off do mean just the silver metal piece? I wouldn't think that would lower it that much. I asked my wife again and she confirmed as i remembered that she was able to put her toes and balls of feet on the silver part, but it was really uncomfortable because she was forced to try and wrap her legs around the covers which was causing her legs to bow. I can't remember for sure, but I think I was on the bike when we were testing. I was hoping with the pegs being further out on the sides it would elimate her having to bow her legs.
Unfortunately, i'm not very mechanical and have almost no tools so Sylly's solution would probably not be an option for me .
I'll try and take some pictures of her on the bike to see what you think.

PS: I really appreciate all your help.
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>When you say the footpad risers have to come off do mean just the silver metal piece?

NO!

As described in words and pictures in this thread, the /500 has a big chunk of plastic that sits atop the passenger floorpad that raises the passenger area about 2". The silver metal screws into this riser and the riser screws into the real, actual floorpad - see picture below.

That riser will have to come off in order to install pegs because the real mounting point is under the real floorpad - the screws that hold down the metal piece are dummies that don't do anything and have no structural strength (which is okay for their intended use - if I put a ladder on the floor, I don't have to screw the ladder to the ground in order to climb it but I might use some cheap screws anyway to keep the wind from blowing it over).

Adding a footpeg that raises the passenger's foot by an inch, after removing the riser and lowering the passenger's foot by 2 inches, is not moving in the direction that you are looking for.

Look through the link I posted above, there are several ideas for short passengers. The UPP is not one of them.
Metal plate removed from riser, riser removed from floorpad. Photo by ScooterMeister.
Metal plate removed from riser, riser removed from floorpad. Photo by ScooterMeister.
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Thanks Jeff, I guess I'll just have to find another solution . Not having tools and not being very good with them even if I did limits my options considerably unless I'm willing to pay someone to do it for me. I did take pictures last night of my Wife sitting on the bike and she can reach the risers, she just can't put her toes on it without bowing her legs. She did find however if she puts her heels on the risers instead and sticks her toes outward it isn't that uncomfortable (less leg bowing).
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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Did you look at that other thread? One of the solutions there is just a block of wood with some longer screws run through it. Think of it as wooden dutch shoes, only attached to the bike instead of her feet.

P.S. I *knew* there was no way somebody 4'8" tall was reaching the footpads on a /400!
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The Carbon Offset PFP
Yes, you saw it here first, folks.

I have managed to combine all the magical properties of Harley footpegs with the carbon off-sets of radiata pine:

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

I wanted to lift the footpeg and move it back a bit 'cos it was hurting my leg when I had my foot down. Lifting it gives loads more clearance on the engine. I was thinking about welding up a bracket with a spacer, but it would've looked like crap. Then I thought - why not use a wooden packer?

Anyway, the boss likes it, and I like it, and it's actually stronger than the previous edition.

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⚠️ Last edited by GonzoB on UTC; edited 1 time
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So there's either a lag or through bolt going into that wooden riser, correct?

I think we're getting somewhere here on a few different approaches.
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>Lifting it gives loads more clearance on the engine.

That always was my #1 problem with your idea, Gonz. This addresses it nicely.

Question: Sylly's Gonzo-esque pegs seem quite elegant, but only good for a passenger with extremely short legs because of the knee angle issue. Is there a frame tube up front around Gonzo's new position that Sylly's U-clamp could latch onto?

The timing on the UPPs is unfortunate: I am about to go on a two-week trip and the UPP prototype should arrive early next week. I had hoped they would arrive yesterday. Between that and my super-secret idea for the surface-mount LEDs that shipped yesterday, I am going to be busy upon my return!
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Hi cagedodger,

Yeah, the "carbon-offset" bit is bolted to the footplate mountings like this:

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

I used a long screw for the rearmost hole in the chequerplate, and used a woodscrew for the front one (it's only screwed into the wooden block).

The square tube is attached to the block using coachscrews.

And before everyone jumps in, that line down the middle of the timber block is not a crack, it's where the two saw cuts met.

Gonzo

PS, Jeff, there is a frame tube running across the top of the inspection opening. I thought of mounting to it, but there's a whole lot of wiring and other stuff cable-tied to the tube, and I suspected something would have gotten damaged.
⚠️ Last edited by GonzoB on UTC; edited 1 time
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First photo
Still away from home so I had the G/F "install" the UPP prototype and send me a picture. I could not talk her through the installation of the rubber bumper and this angle fails to show whether or not the forward swoop lines up with the raised ledge in front of the footpad (both critical design elements), so I guess all this proves is that the UPP really does exist.

Experimentation to commence this weekend. I'll have to figure out something clever to fill that exposed screw hole with (only an issue on the /500).
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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just put a self tapping pan head screw in the hole.

glad to see them in pre-production mode, and getting to some testing.

hey aren't those mine? Laughing emoticon Razz emoticon
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Looks cool.

However, I reckon the vertical bit is too far forward and will catch on the rider's calves. Just moving mine back and up a bit (see above) made a big difference. Still, that's what prototypes are for!

Gonzo
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>the vertical bit is too far forward and will catch on the rider's calves.

I hope not, but the unmodifed UFP sure did. (For that matter, so did the "modified" UFP - mostly due to my lack of machine tools leaving a ragged saw edge. Ouch!) The most out-of-the-way it can be would be straight down and that's only going to gain another half-inch or so.

>just put a self tapping pan head screw in the hole

I was trying to think of something more MV-creative like a D-ring to attach an eyeglass case to*. Or maybe a "curry hook" to hold a single cherry**.

*Apologies to B24.
**Apologies to Fay Presto.

>hey aren't those mine?

Hmm, could be...
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Installation and Ride Notes
The test was a mixed bag. First, the improvements that need to be made:

1. The bracket is indeed too far forward for my calves, as Gonzo predicted, but for an unexpected reason. Standing still, the brackets just barely contact my legs (see Figure 1). With pants on, you'd never even notice it. The problem was when walking backwards, with each leg in turn wacking into the metal.

My G/F confirmed that she needs the pegs lower and wider, but not really further forward, so eliminating the forward angle should fix this problem completely. I'll simply make the peg ear more vertical.

2. The peg ear is WAY too far outboard. The bumper barely contacts the tupperware; it should be mushed up against the panel (Figure 2). I'll bring the peg ear a quarter inch inboard. I'll also eliminate the dihedral and make the bend a simple right angle - because the pegs are parallel to the angled footpads and not perpendicular to the scooter centerline, there is already a built-in (horizontal) angle keeping the rider's feet on so the UFP's (vertical) angle is superfluous. The combination of a right angle and a more inboard bend will place the bumper under the correct compression.

3. You can see in Figure 3 that the rear screw is completely bottomed out against the slot. That turned out not to be a problem for me - perfect fit! - but does not address any variation between bikes. I'll relocate that slot a more robust quarter inch further back.

4. Figure 3 also shows the rear peg hole. That position turned out be be useless, there's no situation that a peg would ever actually be placed there (especially if I am going to change the ear angle to vertical, so the forward hole will be around where that rear hole is now). I'll simply eliminate it. I was of course already planning to add a top hole for short riders.

Now here's the stuff I can't design away.

The UPP flexes a lot. Actually, I should clarify that: the UPP flexes very little - and will flex even less once the bumper is compressed - but the entire floorpad assembly flexes a lot. More than the UFP/XT, less than the UFP/3 (and there's still a lot of those in use so that's hardly an epic fail).

But when my G/F got on, she did something completely unexpected: she put one foot on the peg, and with me yelling "NOOOO...," she hoisted herself up onto the bike. The peg flexed down over an inch!

Fortunately, it came right back, but I doubt the floorpad and the underlying frame channel would survive many of those. Which leads me to a really serious point: I chastise people not to stand up on UFPs, but the truth is it is difficult to stand up on a UFP. The UPP, on the other hand, is easy to stand up on. Too easy. Its position almost begs the passenger to stand, whether mounting and dismounting or while riding. Yes, I can tell people the pegs are only for resting your feet but based on the questions I already get on the UFPs I doubt half the people buying them read the FAQs. While it is perhaps unlikely to result in a genuinely dangerous situation the way that standing up on a UFP while driving could, this could really mess the scooter up.

My G/F found her favorite position to be just her toes on the footpeg, with the peg mounted in the higher position and her heels still on the floorpad (Figure 4). She complained that the bracket ear prevented her from sliding her foot as far inboard as she'd like, but bringing the peg ear further inboard will address that. Her second favorite was foot fully on the peg, with peg in the lowest position (Figure 5).

If you look closely you'll see that in both cases, the outboard end of that big Rivco peg goes to waste, and I would recommend using only short pegs with the UPP (I'm considering buying another set of the Dixies, which are not only short and cheap but have a lip at the end to help keep the foot aboard).

So in conclusion:

A. Passenger felt a big improvement in comfort.
B. Lots of little tweaks needed to the design (but to quote Gonzo, that's why its a prototype).
C. Potentially major issue with passengers (or passersby!) putting their entire weight on the pegs and damaging something.

I await your analyses. I need to know that people still want these - and are willing to accept the risk of their passenger screwing things up - before I go any further.

P.S. I think that second floorpad hole is pretty important; looking at Figure 3, you can visualize how without that forward screw the inboard edge of the UPP would want to lift up when weight is placed on the peg. Therefore, this would not be a truly plug-and-play solution for the /250/400, requiring (just like the UFP) cutting a hole and running a screw. The /500 already has the screw hole courtesy of a speedclip. In both cases, it's the rear screw that takes the main force.
Figure 1. Lack of leg clearance.
Figure 1. Lack of leg clearance.
Figure 2. Bumper not under any compression.
Figure 2. Bumper not under any compression.
Figure 3. Slot bottomed out, rear hole just takin' up space.
Figure 3. Slot bottomed out, rear hole just takin' up space.
Figure 4. Toe on peg.
Figure 4. Toe on peg.
Figure 5. Foot on peg.
Figure 5. Foot on peg.
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Hey, looks good!

Initially I thought the angle to the centreline of the bike (viewed from above) wasn't very good, but seeing the passenger feet on the pegs, I think it's correct. BTW, I DO like your green nailpolish, Jeff.

Damage to calves - yes, mine was the same, but I was more concerned about leaving your foot on the ground for just a tad too long as you take off. I could then see my leg being jammed between the footpeg and the road...It didn't actually happen, but I figured it needed only a moment's inattention.

My Harley Road King's passenger plates were exactly the same, and I caught my leg more than once.

You've done well, and I agree with the mods you suggest. Can you do a video of what happens when you put weight on the peg?

Gonzo
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Red MP3 500 RUBY DRAGON
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Quote: But when my G/F got on, she did something completely unexpected: she put one foot on the peg, and with me yelling "NOOOO...," she hoisted herself up onto the bike. The peg flexed down over an inch! End Quote

Everybody does that. Especially if the pegs are down.
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I've started a thread soliciting input on who wants a UPP at UPP Passenger Peg Bracket.
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New idea:

How about making the UPP with an extension, like this:

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

The extension would reach up inside the frame tube and rest against it. No bolting. It would then resist the bending that the passenger's load would put on the plastic. Maybe you'd need a rubber bumper between the frame and the extension? Dunno.

I suspect it would be strong enough (not as strong as mine, of course)

Gonzo
⚠️ Last edited by GonzoB on UTC; edited 1 time
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Gonzo, I've been thinking along the same lines, but terminating with a thru-hole to clamp to the frame instead of just resting against it. Not for this version, through, as I will explain.

Have you been following this "French passenger peg" thread for passengers footpeg french solution ? I haven't posted in that thread because I don't want to seem like a naysayer, but if the UPP has excessive flex then that solution will as well, in fact if anything it'll suffer from it more. Why? Because the flexibility in the UPP is mostly (and with the new dimensions, entirely) due to the lever arm created by mounting something up above the underlying frame channel. If the weight of the passenger is entirely straight down then there's no net torque, but the moment you offset that weight on an overhanging peg then there's a torque. It's true that the UPP, sticking out wider, creates more of a direct torque; but those french pegs, being raised up even higher than the underlying frame, constitutes an offset lever and they'll have a significant torque as well (think of how a handtruck uses leverage to pick things up).

And apparently these pegs - which are not competitors of the UPP, because they raise the foot position and are meant for shorter passengers, not taller - are being sold and presumably work (I'll be watching the reviews of the American members who have ordered them)...which suggests that the potential for frame twisting may not be as serious an issue as I have made it out to be. I wouldn't stand up on either one, though.

That gives me increased confidence in the basic UPP design, but it is good to know that you have come up with a fix if it turns out that I'm wrong.
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From the "trial description", wondering if only having the extended peg level with the front top bend portion; at the same angle. Description in words, from the back: flat to the front bend, then a bend up and back down flat to follow the contour of the oem passenger footing. On this raise portion, a foot peg could be secured with bolted or welded metal such as a bar or square stock. Passenger would keep heal on oem and be able to slide front of foot outward. Just a thought after seeing the photos? This would be similiar to the "french design", but with a fold up foot peg differance.
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Hi Jeff.

The only thing I like about the French Connection is the fact that it looks nice. I don't think the bending would be as bad as the UPP, but it would still be a problem, and it wouldn't solve the passenger comfort issues, and you'd still have the passenger's feet in your calves.

You could use the extension, and put a hole in it for fitting a "short passenger" peg ABOVE the footplate. Then the UPP would truly be Universal!

GO3, you've lost me. I'm more of a picture man. Sketch?

Gonzo
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