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NOTE: This thread is about a passenger footpeg solution for the Piaggio MP3. If you are looking to put driver footpegs on an MP3, you want to go here: MP3 Footpeg Brackets - SOLD OUT

As of 9/23/11, UPPs are on-order. They will sell out fast, so if you want them then you need to post to this thread to get on the waiting list right away. $115 including shipping.

If you've already read this thread, you can skip to my "Pricing/Waiting List" post below. If you're already on the waiting list, skip to page 3 of this thread.

So, as detailed in Passenger peg brainstorming, I have designed, ordered, and experimented with the prototype UPP. I have identified the modifications required to put it into production. The question now is, does anybody want it?

To recap, the production UPP will put a short peg on the rear of an MP3/500. To mount it, you must physically remove the rear footpad "riser" by removing the aluminum diamondplate and the screws you find underneath, and then removing (which as far as I can tell, equates to breaking off) an additional screw that runs up from bottom to top.

I have every reason to believe that it will also work on a /250 /300 /400, but it will almost certainly require drilling or cutting a hole through the passenger floorpad and installing a speedclip. This is still theoretical and somebody will have to be the guinea pig when it comes to mounting on something other than a /500.

The advantages of the UPP are that it provides a place to mount a short footpeg for the passenger at a variety of heights, out wider and further forward than stock, and your choice of equal to (or higher, if you have a /250 /300 /400) or lower than the stock height. The UPPs are the same indistructable stainless steel as the popular UFP driver peg brackets.

The disadvantage of the UPP is that it will not and cannot take the full weight of a person; and unlike the UFP (which is nearly impossible to stand up on due to its location) it is extremely easy to deliberately or accidentally stand up on a UPP. Doing so can twist the underlying floorboard frame into a corkscrew. It is not necessarilly dangerous (say in the way that a UFP failing in operation could cause the driver's foot to fly off and cause an accident) but it could render the UPP essentially useless afterwards since the underlying frame member might lose its ability to support the passenger's foot and might even leave the scooter's floorpad crooked.

So with all of the above advantages and disadvantages, who wants one and how much will you be willing to pay? Let's bracket that at $115 through $150, anything over $150 is IMHO getting a bit ridiculous. EDIT: the price will be between $104 and $130, depending on options and quantity as detailed below. Remember pegs are not included, but for myself I am considering the aluminum Dixie pegs which are only ten bucks (to minimize leverage you must use a short peg, and my experiments show that the outboard ends of a long peg aren't utililized by a passenger on a UPP anyway).

I have taken the UPP concept as far as I can. Now is the time to decide whether or not we are going to make it happen. If you want one, you need to chime in. Don't ask about finish - I think they would look great against the black floorpad (which is true of all models, once the /500 riser is removed) in black powder-coat, but that depends on price so that has to be established first. For right now, assume bare steel. Also, no more tweaks: for example, no the UPP does not exactly duplicate the aluminum diamondplate's coverage (and if black powder-coated, I doubt anyone would ever notice) and I am not making any more changes to its shape. Functionality over cosmetics.

KEYWORDS: Piaggio, MP3, Gilera Fuoco, passenger footpegs, passenger pegs, rear footpegs, rear pegs, UPP, UPPs
Production version's peg ear is vertical to avoid poking the driver in the calves.
Production version's peg ear is vertical to avoid poking the driver in the calves.
The prototype (with a much too long peg). The rearmost hole was useless and abandoned in the production model.
The prototype (with a much too long peg). The rearmost hole was useless and abandoned in the production model.
The actual production bracket, satin stainless steel, with bumper and screws installer. 8mm peg can mount in any of three positions.
The actual production bracket, satin stainless steel, with bumper and screws installer. 8mm peg can mount in any of three positions.
And with a Rizoma sportsbike passenger peg installed.
And with a Rizoma sportsbike passenger peg installed.
⚠️ Last edited by rjeffb on UTC; edited 23 times
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UTC quote
I'm down for a set. Color I prefer the standard silver or the beaded blasted silver. but it doesn't matter really to me.
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I don't do much two up riding but could the rider use it for a more forward sport bike-like leaning position? Like hooking your heels on it or even resting the tops of your boots? Might come in handy for long rides to give the rider more positions to shift to and might be fun on twisties though there is no tank to grip with your knees.
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stickyfrog wrote:
I don't do much two up riding but could the rider use it for a more forward sport bike-like leaning position? Like hooking your heels on it or even resting the tops of your boots? Might come in handy for long rides to give the rider more positions to shift to and might be fun on twisties though there is no tank to grip with your knees.
yup was thinking the same lines as well. The more foot/leg positions the better.

No tank needed when doing twistys. Slide the butt to the inside of the turn use the outside leg/thigh to to hold on the big ass seat, then the rear peg could be used as a pressure point for downward push.
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stickyfrog wrote:
I don't do much two up riding but could the rider use it for a more forward sport bike-like leaning position? Like hooking your heels on it or even resting the tops of your boots? Might come in handy for long rides to give the rider more positions to shift to and might be fun on twisties though there is no tank to grip with your knees.
Assuming that is even possible - Doug have you checked out that possibility with your spare UFP/LT? - there's a not-insurmountable problem.

The UPPs are angled to follow the floorpad angle, which is great for the passenger - a slight horizontal dihedral to help keep their feet on. But from the driver's side, guaranteed to make their feet slide OFF.

However, the UPPs are high enough that the chances of ground contact are much less than the UFP - perhaps even impossible (I haven't analyzed this in any detail). The pegs could be set to fold up forward rather than vertical. In this case, there are certain pegs - the Rivcos come to mind - that allow you to set the hinge angle with a setscrew. You could mount the pegs to fold mostly forward, and then run down the setscrew so that the pegs themselves would be perpendicular to or even slightly forward of the scooter centerline. Perfect for the driver.
Top pic with normal pegs pointing up: best for passenger. Bottom pic with adjustable pegs pointing forward: best for driver.
Top pic with normal pegs pointing up: best for passenger. Bottom pic with adjustable pegs pointing forward: best for driver.
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old as dirt wrote:
stickyfrog wrote:
I don't do much two up riding but could the rider use it for a more forward sport bike-like leaning position? Like hooking your heels on it or even resting the tops of your boots? Might come in handy for long rides to give the rider more positions to shift to and might be fun on twisties though there is no tank to grip with your knees.
yup was thinking the same lines as well. The more foot/leg positions the better.

No tank needed when doing twistys. Slide the butt to the inside of the turn use the outside leg/thigh to to hold on the big ass seat, then the rear peg could be used as a pressure point for downward push.
I'll already put my heels on the lip of the passenger platforms at times when I'm riding.
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UTC quote
If the rear pegs would ever come close to scraping (I have no idea just speculating) folding forward could cause some problems. If they don't, then it could be a really neat position to ride in, assuming that the stance isn't too wide.

I can't help but wonder if it's possible to grind out some plastic on the removed pad area on the 500 to reinstall it over the top of the bracket.

I'm definitely interested in hearing other's experiments.
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UTC quote
Cagedodger wrote:
If the rear pegs would ever come close to scraping (I have no idea just speculating) folding forward could cause some problems. If they don't, then it could be a really neat position to ride in, assuming that the stance isn't too wide.

I can't help but wonder if it's possible to grind out some plastic on the removed pad area on the 500 to reinstall it over the top of the bracket.

I'm definitely interested in hearing other's experiments.
if your scraping them at that height your going to have more problems to worry about than folding forward.
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rjeffb wrote:
Assuming that is even possible - Doug have you checked out that possibility with your spare UFP/LT? - there's a not-insurmountable problem.

The UPPs are angled to follow the floorpad angle, which is great for the passenger - a slight horizontal dihedral to help keep their feet on. But from the driver's side, guaranteed to make their feet slide OFF.

my spare set of LT's are on Georgia girls scoot right now. She borrowed them for her trip after amerivespa going to San Antonio then back home. I should get them back in a couple weeks when she comes up next for her belt change.

I think a tapered thick washer can help off set the angle a bit if wanting them for the rider.
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Maybe we could mess around with the idea at the Lemonade run.
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stickyfrog wrote:
Maybe we could mess around with the idea at the Lemonade run.
yes we can
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UTC quote
I love the idea for that I'm willing to guinea pig for you specially since my girl is only 4"7 this might help her be on here a bit more comfortable sign me up with a pair and price and the front xt's as well ASAP
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Hugozacarias wrote:
I love the idea for that I'm willing to guinea pig for you specially since my girl is only 4"7 this might help her be on here a bit more comfortable sign me up with a pair and price and the front xt's as well ASAP
Hugo, as documented just previously in this very thread, the UPP is for passengers with long legs. It will make things worse for shorter riders, and if you read the thread you'll see links to some other posts that describe possible solutions for shorter passengers.

Regarding the UFPs, you said in a PM that you can only pay by Paypal or bank transfer. I do not understand why you cannot just buy a money order, but as stated and emphasized in both my responses and the UFP FAQ, unless you can provide a U.S. check or money order then buying a bracket is not an option.
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I remain very interested.
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I already said a while back these are must have items for me. Put me down for the first batch.
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rjeffb wrote:
Hugozacarias wrote:
I love the idea for that I'm willing to guinea pig for you specially since my girl is only 4"7 this might help her be on here a bit more comfortable sign me up with a pair and price and the front xt's as well ASAP
Hugo, as documented just previously in this very thread, the UPP is for passengers with long legs. It will make things worse for shorter riders, and if you read the thread you'll see links to some other posts that describe possible solutions for shorter passengers.

Regarding the UFPs, you said in a PM that you can only pay by Paypal or bank transfer. I do not understand why you cannot just buy a money order, but as stated and emphasized in both my responses and the UFP FAQ, unless you can provide a U.S. check or money order then buying a bracket is not an option.
Jeff it is possible to put a 3 inch or so riser on then the footpegs for shorter folks. this will help them from feeling like they have to pinch their thighs in so tight and pigeon toe inward.
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I'm not so sure about that. Putting a riser on the peg itself constitutes a lever arm that will increase torque. A riser directly over the floorpad is transmitted vertically down to the frame channel, which is why the ideas in the thread that I linked to above (such as the big wooden dutch shoe bolted to the frame) are a viable option. But having a riser along the side transmits the downward force as an unbalanced torque and the UPP is already suceptable to twisting under torque. What is worse, offset footpegs and risers also have a small but definite horizontal offset - the axis through which their force is transmitted would be even further outboard and only add to the torque. And there's even more: the offset apparatus itself is its own lever arm that would apply its own torque to the mounting hole, which if you look at the UPP you'll see would want to bend the UPP's inboard edge (secured only by a speedclip, if at all) up and away from the floorpad.

In short, I don't think that's a good idea.
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rjeffb wrote:
I'm not so sure about that. Putting a riser on the peg itself constitutes a lever arm that will increase torque. A riser directly over the floorpad is transmitted vertically down to the frame channel, which is why the ideas in the thread that I linked to above (such as the big wooden dutch shoe bolted to the frame) are a viable option. But having a riser along the side transmits the downward force as an unbalanced torque and the UPP is already suceptable to twisting under torque. What is worse, offset footpegs and risers also have a small but definite horizontal offset - the axis through which their force is transmitted would be even further outboard and only add to the torque. And there's even more: the offset apparatus itself is its own lever arm that would apply its own torque to the mounting hole, which if you look at the UPP you'll see would want to bend the UPP's inboard edge (secured only by a speedclip, if at all) up and away from the floorpad.

In short, I don't think that's a good idea.
I hear what you saying. And now that you put it in so many words I will agree that a riser will put to much torque on the speed clip bolt.
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Pricing/Waiting List
I've deleted all the original text in this post, which used to deal with who wanted what kind of finish, because the UPPs are completed and shipping as of 10/10/11 so the time for discussion is past. The price is check or money order $US115 shipped, silver satin finish, 8mm hole for a sportsbike "rearset" peg (read further in the thread for how and why) that can be drilled out to take a 3/8" peg if you want to, includes bumpers and two longer screws - you'll need to recycle a pair of your diamondplate screws as well. Outside the U.S., or owners of an MP3 other than a /500, let's discuss first.

PUBLIC COMMITMENT WARNING! If you say you want one now, you will be expected to follow though with that promise!

1. Torqueboy RECEIVED
2. TN_Sooner RECEIVED
3. Old As Dirt RECEIVED
4. G03 RECEIVED
5. Welcha RECEIVED
6. JTbeMe RECEIVED
7. LM15 RECEIVED
8. Rjeffb RECEIVED
9. Sangeo1 RECEIVED
10. Phillip..P. RECEIVED
11. Englishcan RECEIVED
12. PapaBear RECEIVED

ALL GONE!
⚠️ Last edited by rjeffb on UTC; edited 40 times
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1) I want one pair.
2) I prefer the satin finish (same as the UFP brackets)
3) I am willing to purchase a non-preferred finish, but if black is the preferred color I would like know if will hold up well.
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Okay, having recently "acquired" a passenger that rides occassionally, I too am "in":

1) I want one pair.
2) I prefer the Black finish
3) I am willing to purchase the non-preferred finish.
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Thanks both,

Torqueboy, that means you're "satin only" because by definition we will have no confirmation about the black finish until long after they are already produced. I request public input from those UFP owners who have done the black finish to chime in with their results, especially anyone who has had their powder-coated UFP for a while (over multiple seasons).
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1. I want a set
2.prefer matching the UFP/LT's - satin
3. Yes I will buy either way.
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rjeffb wrote:
Thanks both,

Torqueboy, that means you're "satin only" because by definition we will have no confirmation about the black finish until long after they are already produced. I request public input from those UFP owners who have done the black finish to chime in with their results, especially anyone who has had their powder-coated UFP for a while (over multiple seasons).
I don't need a guarantee from you on the black coating, just input from those that have the coating already. I like the idea of the black brackets actually with the one exception being that they won't match to UFPs. Call me a snob, and but it would be nice if they matched.
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Pegs
I found an interesting, but still not cheap at around $90, short black footpeg at http://www.jpcycles.com/product/531-278?utm_source=googleproducts&utm_medium=cse. I don't have exact dimensions so what I did is I took an image of that peg, plus its silver competitors (the similarly priced Kuryakyn Small ISO and the $10 (!!!) Rusty Riders Dixie) and sized them in a composite image so their mounting hex head screws were about the same size. I also included the jumbo-sized Rivco flat and black folding pegs for comparison. IMO the ideal peg would be an inch to 3 cm shorter than the Rivco - check out the pix in the Passenger Peg brainstorming thread linked above to see how I concluded that.

I don't know if these have a setscrew to adjust angle (to allow them to be used as crotch-rocket-position driver pegs per the discussion above), the web page says nothing about it.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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I'm going to use these pegs:

http://www.patscycleworks.com/shop/products/THUNDER-HEART-CHROME-BILLET-FOOT-PEGS-FOR-30160%7B47%7D1.html#

They are pretty much the same as the 1/2" bolt diameter pegs I used on the UFPs, but I won't have to drill these out.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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Molto Verboso
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Don't know if I will ever use them, but put me in for simple satin pair. Remember, this is a custom made item, and future availability will be limited ! Seen many great products made for bikes go by by, due to lost interest of sellers.
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I'm out. I love the rider brackets but I just know my passenger will put her full weight on these ones, no matter how often I remind her not too.
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G03, would you buy if only the blacks were available?

Torqueboy, nice pegs. When I get a chance I'll add those to the UFP peg FAQ. EDIT: oh, I just saw the price! I don't think that's a mass-appeal solution, but boy they sure are nice. One thing I note that they share with the Dixies and the Kurykan short pegs: a very short hinge section. I note that the various Rivcos have a very long-neck hinge, not sure why that is. BY THE WAY, I saw on Rivco's web site a 3/8"-to-1/2" screw adapter, I wonder if it could be used to attach 1/2" pegs to a UFP/UPP without drilling?

Demolicious, I am of course disappointed in your comment but I appreciate your candidness; that's exactly the kind of straight talk I want. Are you just giving up, or are you going to pursue (referring to the passenger peg brainstorming thread) the stronger but less versatile inspection compartment idea of GonzoB/Sylly? Assuming we get enough people to order the UPPs and once we get some experience on them, I am thinking about a "lessons learned" thread that would collate all the different ideas that have been tried by myself, Old As Dirt, Gonzo, Sylly, B24, mjm50cal, Redsparky/ScooterMeister, Ginger Phil, and probably some others that I'm forgetting. Some very clever ideas have been tried by some very clever people here.
⚠️ Last edited by rjeffb on UTC; edited 5 times
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I found these foot pegs online. The length is perfect for the UPPs since they're intended for sport bikes. The one downside I see to them is that they are spring loaded in the open position. That means they can't be kept closed for storage.

Rizoma folding pegs
Rizoma folding pegs
LighTech folding pegs (see video link)
LighTech folding pegs (see video link)
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Torqueboy wrote:
I found these foot pegs online. The length is perfect for the UPPs since they're intended for sport bikes. The one downside I see to them is that they are spring loaded in the open position. That means they can't be kept closed for storage.
remove the pin and spring and install a bolt.
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@torqueboy avatar
Piaggio MP3 500
Joined: UTC
Posts: 392
Location: Seattle, WA
UTC quote
old as dirt wrote:
Torqueboy wrote:
I found these foot pegs online. The length is perfect for the UPPs since they're intended for sport bikes. The one downside I see to them is that they are spring loaded in the open position. That means they can't be kept closed for storage.
remove the pin and spring and install a bolt.
I was thinking the same thing. It should work so long as I can tighten the bolt enough to create some friction in the hinge. Otherwise it will just be floppy.
OP
@rjeffb avatar
UTC

Bracketmeister
Bracketmeister Emeritus (retired)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2519
Location: New Jersey
 
Bracketmeister
@rjeffb avatar
Bracketmeister Emeritus (retired)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2519
Location: New Jersey
UTC quote
Wow, they're beautiful! Did Bubba see those yet? I hate it when someone posts a picture of something I was unaware I couldn't live without...
@torqueboy avatar
UTC

Hooked
Piaggio MP3 500
Joined: UTC
Posts: 392
Location: Seattle, WA
 
Hooked
@torqueboy avatar
Piaggio MP3 500
Joined: UTC
Posts: 392
Location: Seattle, WA
UTC quote
rjeffb wrote:
Wow, they're beautiful! Did Bubba see those yet? I hate it when someone posts a picture of something I was unaware I couldn't live without...
Sorry.
@desmolicious avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3727
Location: Venice Beach, CA
 
Ossessionato
@desmolicious avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3727
Location: Venice Beach, CA
UTC quote
rjeffb wrote:
Demolicious, I am of course disappointed in your comment but I appreciate your candidness; that's exactly the kind of straight talk I want. Are you just giving up, or are you going to pursue (referring to the passenger peg brainstorming thread) the stronger but less versatile inspection compartment idea of GonzoB/Sylly?
I think I'm giving up on it, at least for now.
Not wanting to sound selfish but I was more concerned for my own comfort especially since the times my gf comes along are few and far between, especially since she has now 2 other scoots to ride (Vespa GTS, Buddy Blackjack).

Which is why I had to have the rider brackets, but not so much the passenger ones.
@sanogeo1 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Red Mp 3 500
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1519
Location: Norman, Oklahoma. USA
 
Molto Verboso
@sanogeo1 avatar
Red Mp 3 500
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1519
Location: Norman, Oklahoma. USA
UTC quote
Rjeffb. In order to match my rivco, I would make two cuts. One where the outer rubber sets flat against the rivico and another where the same rubber sets against the other part of the rivico, thus moving the beveled part towards the scooter, 1/2 inch shorting it. Its that the bolt gos all way thru. Would not need to shorten and retread or replace the bolt as it is only screwed in about 3/8s in and will go in about 7/8s . I do not think it would weaken it enough to matter as you have stated that the upp is not intended to hold much weight. I am not an engineer. So I look forward to your input. If you have a revico pull the bolt out and you should see what I am talking about. Just a thought. George
@sanogeo1 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Red Mp 3 500
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1519
Location: Norman, Oklahoma. USA
 
Molto Verboso
@sanogeo1 avatar
Red Mp 3 500
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1519
Location: Norman, Oklahoma. USA
UTC quote
Just a thought, that at 200lbs I could stand up on the revico and strip em out as they are only screwed in 3/8s. Or bounce on a few times. So shorting em should not matter much. They are just a foot rest for my wife BYW I have the black revicos
@gonzob avatar
UTC

Addicted
Previously:Fuoco 500ie with Active Suspension. Now: CTX700
Joined: UTC
Posts: 663
Location: Sydney, Australia
 
Addicted
@gonzob avatar
Previously:Fuoco 500ie with Active Suspension. Now: CTX700
Joined: UTC
Posts: 663
Location: Sydney, Australia
UTC quote
I think I'll stick with my carbon-offset pegs.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

Gonzo
@sanogeo1 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Red Mp 3 500
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1519
Location: Norman, Oklahoma. USA
 
Molto Verboso
@sanogeo1 avatar
Red Mp 3 500
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1519
Location: Norman, Oklahoma. USA
UTC quote
Strong, but I still pefer the looks of rjeffb's. Waiting for the wife to get home to decide whether to get his. I want em. I may wear the pants, but she controls the rest. As my dear old brother says about his wife, She's the one I have to live with.
@sanogeo1 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Red Mp 3 500
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1519
Location: Norman, Oklahoma. USA
 
Molto Verboso
@sanogeo1 avatar
Red Mp 3 500
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1519
Location: Norman, Oklahoma. USA
UTC quote
My wife is 5'8". and complains about turning her foot in, and would like to lower her foot and inch or so. Looks like rjeffbs would fit right.
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