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Molto Verboso
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I have seen references to this here.. I called my dealer and he knows nothing about it.. is there anything specific I should reference to point him in the right direction?

Thanks
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UTC quote
Re: New mapping update for 500?
noth wrote:
I have seen references to this here.. I called my dealer and he knows nothing about it.. is there anything specific I should reference to point him in the right direction?

Thanks
He needs to be a certified Piaggio tech and possess the Navigator tool. He has to have that tool before he can be an effective servicer.
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
He is a certified Piaggio tech.. They are a Piaggio dealer.. What exactly is the Navigator tool? Wat does it do? I asked what I could ask him about.. I can ask about the "Navigator tool".. but that means nothing to me..
Thanks
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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UTC quote
noth wrote:
He is a certified Piaggio tech.. They are a Piaggio dealer.. What exactly is the Navigator tool? Wat does it do? I asked what I could ask him about.. I can ask about the "Navigator tool".. but that means nothing to me..
Thanks
it should to the tech. Its a computer tool to talk to the scoot.
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
old as dirt wrote:
noth wrote:
He is a certified Piaggio tech.. They are a Piaggio dealer.. What exactly is the Navigator tool? Wat does it do? I asked what I could ask him about.. I can ask about the "Navigator tool".. but that means nothing to me..
Thanks
it should to the tech. Its a computer tool to talk to the scoot.
Progress.. OK.. of course they have the Piaggio system.. comes with the franchise.. I expect..
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UTC quote
noth wrote:
old as dirt wrote:
noth wrote:
He is a certified Piaggio tech.. They are a Piaggio dealer.. What exactly is the Navigator tool? Wat does it do? I asked what I could ask him about.. I can ask about the "Navigator tool".. but that means nothing to me..
Thanks
it should to the tech. Its a computer tool to talk to the scoot.
Progress.. OK.. of course they have the Piaggio system.. comes with the franchise.. I expect..
nope, they have to buy the tooling extra from the franchise.
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shouldn't Vespa tell us?
If there is any update to any model, shouldn't the manufacturer post something to all owners? Some notification that there is a recall they must, but if they have made some improvement that would make their owners happy then why wouldn't they tell us? Or do they want us to call their dealers everyday to find out what updates? Maybe call more than one dealer if there is some special tool they need.....
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UTC quote
Re: New mapping update for 500?
noth wrote:
I have seen references to this here.. I called my dealer and he knows nothing about it.. is there anything specific I should reference to point him in the right direction?

Thanks
As I mentioned on the other thread about this update, when I called the two dealers in the area, all I got was big "I DON KNOW." But on Monday I was at one of the dealers with a couple of friends. I stood in front of the service counter and asked. Of course, they go into self defense mode - "You can't go by what's on the internet" "I don't know about any recall" "What's your serial number?" Then he asked the other guy. Finally he clicked some computer keys. "OoooOOOHHH! there IS one!" He finally did 'fess up - they have a Navigator tool and can download the new mapping. Didn't say they WOULD. Until I call and let them know I'm coming and they can download it. He did say it would take about a half hour for about $39. Which price may be a little iffy.

The take away for this long story is that just calling may not work. YMMV
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For anyone who thinks it is unreasonable to charge for the update here is another experience. I had a $250,000 Volvo articulating loader that had a turbo charger fail. Spent a heafty sum for a new one and the engine would not run properly. The service tech came back and I was charged several thousand for a software update for the new turbo charger. Note that he came back and did not automatically check and that I was charged heavily. Bottom line I could not replace a failed turbo charger without paying through the nose for software update to go with it. The loader was less than 4 years old. I had the same model loader at another mill and was upside down with only 3 monthly payments left. I can relate many similar Volvo industrial equipment stories and will never buy another one.
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Ok, here is a question I am surprised no one has asked yet (that I can find):

How do I prove the dealer did the update?

I can see some sketchy dealers saying they can do the update, then trying with some ancient updating tool (not the navigator) and then the customer is mislead thinking they actually got the update done.

Unless the changes are easily noticable, is there anyway the system can flash a code telling you the software update is infact the newest most updated version?
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It was certainly possible to update the MP3 500 firmware with the older datatech (? forget name) machine - so it might well have been possible. Cheekythomas of this parish might know.

However if they've been selling the GTS250/300's they'll definitely need the Navigator to update them.
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Is it just the 500 MP3 that might need some reprogamming? Once in awhile my `09 400 motor dies at inoportune times, mainly when I go from throttle to idle.
⚠️ Last edited by norCal Randy on UTC; edited 1 time
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norCal Randy wrote:
Is it just the 500 MP3 that might need some reprogamming? One in awhile my `09 400 motor dies at inoportune times, mainly when I go from throttle to idle.
that is exactly the symptom for the update and yes there is an update for the 400's. Yours should be free as you are still under your 1 year warranty date.
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OAD, have you gotten yours updated yet? Sloan's in Murfreesboro has the equipment to do the update. I just haven't had time to get mine done yet.
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UTC quote
Re: shouldn't Vespa tell us?
FredChiTown wrote:
If there is any update to any model, shouldn't the manufacturer post something to all owners? Some notification that there is a recall they must, but if they have made some improvement that would make their owners happy then why wouldn't they tell us? Or do they want us to call their dealers everyday to find out what updates? Maybe call more than one dealer if there is some special tool they need.....
Who used the word "Recall", besides you?
It's a FW update. No different than going to a car dealer out of warranty, you get charged for the update.

If it was a "Safety Recall" you would be notified and it would be free.
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wrong term
The term recall is wrong, but if there is an update to certain models and you vehicle is still under warranty then shouldn't it be listed? And even if it is out of warranty, shouldn't owners be notified?
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I said IF there was
IF THERE WAS a recall, they the manufacturer must notify the owner, but I WAS asking about an update which has nothing to do with whether it is in or out of warranty. I would think people owners would like to know but maybe this isn't the place to share information that we get from the manufacturer.
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Re: wrong term
FredChiTown wrote:
The term recall is wrong, but if there is an update to certain models and your vehicle is still under warranty then shouldn't it be listed? And even if it is out of warranty, shouldn't owners be notified?
Not for software updates that are not recalls.
There is no "LIST", the dealer connects the Navigator to the diagnostics port and it tells them if there is an update available.
If your vehicle is under warranty the update is done for free.
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Re: I said IF there was
FredChiTown wrote:
IF THERE WAS a recall, they the manufacturer must notify the owner, but I WAS asking about an update which has nothing to do with whether it is in or out of warranty. I would think people owners would like to know but maybe this isn't the place to share information that we get from the manufacturer.
Go to a car dealer if your car is more than a year or so old, and you would be amazed how many updates may be available for your car that no one ever told you about
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emtkopan wrote:
OAD, have you gotten yours updated yet? Sloan's in Murfreesboro has the equipment to do the update. I just haven't had time to get mine done yet.
no I haven't yet. I do need to get there of take a ride to Atlanta to Motoretta. Sloans would be closer but the back roads to Atl are some good ones.
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UTC quote
old as dirt wrote:
norCal Randy wrote:
Is it just the 500 MP3 that might need some reprogamming? One in awhile my `09 400 motor dies at inoportune times, mainly when I go from throttle to idle.
that is exactly the symptom for the update and yes there is an update for the 400's. Yours should be free as you are still under your 1 year warranty date.
My 500 runs fine. Is this a symptom of US models?

Gonzo
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Re: wrong term
"StooterBoy"
There is no "LIST", the dealer connects the Navigator to the diagnostics port and it tells them if there is an update available.

I think you missed a step here. The dealer has to download the update to his computer and then install it in his Navigator. I think it is not automatic.
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That was the way with the older diagnostic machine. The Navigator has to be hooked up to a laptop or PC connected to the internet to work without complaining and it'll grab the update as soon as it spots it needs doing if that's the first one the shop has done. If they've already done one it'll be instantly available. Or so I'm told...

Using the Navigator is part of the specified service procedure.
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Unless customers complain to the Fed. Govt. about something, there is no recall announcement made and it is voluntary for the mfg. to do it on their own. So those that have issues should let the Govt. know for them to demand a recall of the mfg. Squeaky wheel get's the grease.



Twice I've had the motor die unexpectedly while turning in front of oncoming traffic. To correct the issue I 1st have to stop the scooter completely before I can start the motor again in front of oncoming traffic !! Wha? emoticon Not a nice moment. I could get run over when this happens.
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UTC quote
emtkopan wrote:
OAD, have you gotten yours updated yet? Sloan's in Murfreesboro has the equipment to do the update. I just haven't had time to get mine done yet.
Have you done the update at Sloans? What are they charging? How did you verify they have the equipment and know what they are doing?
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Fuzzy wrote:
I can relate many similar Volvo industrial equipment stories and will never buy another one.
They are the same with all their machinery. Thieving bastards. Plus IMHO their autos are junk. We have a 2002 Volvo V40 that has just over a 100K and t rattles like the worst clunkers of yesteryear. I've never had a post 90's vehicle this bad and I've told Susan no more Volvos, not up for discussion. Even the independant shops act like the parts are gold plated - they whacked her $400 for a Bosch alternator last year. I checked and I can get it for $80 rebuilt. But the shops won't *use* rebuilt - they claim OEM is the best. Idiots.... (sorry - don't get me started on Volvo).
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BubbaJon wrote:
Fuzzy wrote:
I can relate many similar Volvo industrial equipment stories and will never buy another one.
They are the same with all their machinery. Thieving bastards. Plus IMHO their autos are junk. We have a 2002 Volvo V40 that has just over a 100K and t rattles like the worst clunkers of yesteryear. I've never had a post 90's vehicle this bad and I've told Susan no more Volvos, not up for discussion. Even the independant shops act like the parts are gold plated - they whacked her $400 for a Bosch alternator last year. I checked and I can get it for $80 rebuilt. But the shops won't *use* rebuilt - they claim OEM is the best. Idiots.... (sorry - don't get me started on Volvo).
I used to be a Volvo man(had 3) back in the `60-`70's, 'till my `70 142S needed at least new rings @55K m. and the camshaft had already gone tits up@ 20K miles. I traded it in on a new `75 Toyota and have driven only Toyotas since(new & used).
⚠️ Last edited by norCal Randy on UTC; edited 1 time
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UTC quote
Map first or...
my 500 is going in for the 6k service

-- while in there I was going to have them install Dr Pulley's and a Fuzzy --

the reason I was going to do the DP and Fuzzy was to get rid of the awful vibration/rattling/harmonics at idle or low speeds

is there any benefit in doing separately or does it make no difference?
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Re: Map first or...
trirol1 wrote:
my 500 is going in for the 6k service

-- while in there I was going to have them install Dr Pulley's and a Fuzzy --

the reason I was going to do the DP and Fuzzy was to get rid of the awful vibration/rattling/harmonics at idle or low speeds

is there any benefit in doing separately or does it make no difference?
do it during the service , you only have to pay once for for labor.
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TN_Sooner wrote:
emtkopan wrote:
OAD, have you gotten yours updated yet? Sloan's in Murfreesboro has the equipment to do the update. I just haven't had time to get mine done yet.
Have you done the update at Sloans? What are they charging? How did you verify they have the equipment and know what they are doing?
I have not yet. I will probably go Fri or Sat. I'm still under warranty until April 22nd. I called and talked to Jeff and someone else who said you could come in any day or time except Thurs because the guy is off. Should take about 30 min and cost about $40-45 for labor. He also asked if I was experiencing any problems otherwise to just leave it alone.
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You do not have to come to a stop, to restart when it dies while rolling. Just gently pull the brake while restarting the scoot. Might be a good idea to practice it in a parking lot. I have done it a few times and now it is no problem. I have also got the update and it fixed the problem for the most part. It has happened a couple of times while still cold after the update. A big improvement over how it used to be. It would die even when rode a while, when slowing down. Happened several times in traffic before the update. Scared the crap out of me the first couple of times, until I learned to restart it on the move.
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emtkopan wrote:
He also asked if I was experiencing any problems otherwise to just leave it alone.
Don't listen to him - get it. Mine didn't stall for the longest time and then it just started. The stock mapping is overdamped - meaning that it responds excessively to the quick dip in RPM's when the clutch releases. The net result is your rpm's go too low, your engine may "stumble" and could possibly quit. Not a happy thing turning across traffic.
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BubbaJon wrote:
emtkopan wrote:
He also asked if I was experiencing any problems otherwise to just leave it alone.
Don't listen to him - get it. Mine didn't stall for the longest time and then it just started. The stock mapping is overdamped - meaning that it responds excessively to the quick dip in RPM's when the clutch releases. The net result is your rpm's go too low, your engine may "stumble" and could possibly quit. Not a happy thing turning across traffic.
yes especially get it since still under warranty.
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UTC quote
Just so - it's under warranty, get the update. This *will* cost the dealer (or in the US as I understand it the individual mechanic - bad), as they won't get compensated by Piaggio, as it's not proven as 'needed'. But it shouldn't take them much time, and should give them a more loyal customer. It's worth a USD30 'bung'...

Good dealers here in the UK do updates as a free courtesy service on request.

------------

Only a few days before I can say 'here' is California, YAY! But only for a few weeks. Boo.
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UTC quote
Brought my MP3 in for an oil change. Asked on the phone about the mapping update which the guy completely denied and then asked again when I got there. They kept claiming there was absolutely no update.

Two hours later.... get my MP3 back and I see a mapping update! Too bad they charged me around $50 bucks for it, but they sheepishly admitted that there was an update once they connected their diagnostic tool.
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UTC quote
BubbaJon wrote:
Fuzzy wrote:
I can relate many similar Volvo industrial equipment stories and will never buy another one.
They are the same with all their machinery. Thieving bastards. Plus IMHO their autos are junk. We have a 2002 Volvo V40 that has just over a 100K and t rattles like the worst clunkers of yesteryear. I've never had a post 90's vehicle this bad and I've told Susan no more Volvos, not up for discussion. Even the independant shops act like the parts are gold plated - they whacked her $400 for a Bosch alternator last year. I checked and I can get it for $80 rebuilt. But the shops won't *use* rebuilt - they claim OEM is the best. Idiots.... (sorry - don't get me started on Volvo).
The shop is the one that has to provide the free labor when the rebuilt part doesn't work or fails early, I agree with them, rebuilt parts SUCK?
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UTC quote
The shop is the one that has to provide the free labor when the rebuilt part doesn't work or fails early, I agree with them, rebuilt parts SUCK?[/quote]

But won't most shops say "If you supply the part, we'll install it, but we will not guarantee the Part"?
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UTC quote
I have found lately, shops around here won't install your parts any more.
You have them get the parts or they won't work on it.

The problem is, there are LOTS and LOTS of cheap and sometimes unsafe Chinese parts being imported into the US and shops don't want to be responsible when the parts fail and someone gets killed.
@old_as_dirt avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 GTS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 22553
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@old_as_dirt avatar
2007 GTS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 22553
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
UTC quote
StooterBoy wrote:
I have found lately, shops around here won't install your parts any more.
You have them get the parts or they won't work on it.

The problem is, there are LOTS and LOTS of cheap and sometimes unsafe Chinese parts being imported into the US and shops don't want to be responsible when the parts fail and someone gets killed.
not to mention they don't make any money on them as well. Which is a big profit area to dealers.
@yayadave avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
MP3 500 - GTV250
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2970
Location: Near Pittsburgh
 
Ossessionato
@yayadave avatar
MP3 500 - GTV250
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2970
Location: Near Pittsburgh
UTC quote
old as dirt wrote:
StooterBoy wrote:
I have found lately, shops around here won't install your parts any more.
You have them get the parts or they won't work on it.

The problem is, there are LOTS and LOTS of cheap and sometimes unsafe Chinese parts being imported into the US and shops don't want to be responsible when the parts fail and someone gets killed.
not to mention they don't make any money on them as well. Which is a big profit area to dealers.
I'm sure you're just cynical.
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