OP
@wanderingpurist avatar
UTC

Hooked
MP3 500ie
Joined: UTC
Posts: 120
Location: Los Angeles
 
Hooked
@wanderingpurist avatar
MP3 500ie
Joined: UTC
Posts: 120
Location: Los Angeles
UTC quote
given the replies to my Holy cow! post, my curiosity is raised -

in your experience are MC's easier to control at slow speeds or the MP3?

I was surprised how heavy the steering is on the VFR compared to the MP3, yet how much easier it was to control at slow speeds (<10 mph)

given the total amount of rubber contact patch and mechanical linkages on the front of the MP3 I would have expected the opposite.

I still love my MP3 500, just trying to wrap my head around this. part of my curiosity is the (general) perception (mine and many others) and intuition that a double track in the front should lend itself to more stability. so why can I control the VFR better, including balancing, at walking speeds?
@old_as_dirt avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 GTS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 22470
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@old_as_dirt avatar
2007 GTS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 22470
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
UTC quote
the biggest difference your feeling is the 2 different transmissions.
the MP3 has a CVT style while the VFR has a dual clutch style. 2 totally different animals.
@bubbajon avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
RIP: MP3 500 - Brutto Moto
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5288
Location: Austin, TX
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@bubbajon avatar
RIP: MP3 500 - Brutto Moto
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5288
Location: Austin, TX
UTC quote
Without a doubt regular MC's are easier - it's the clutch.
Think of the MP3 as a kamikaze bike - it works like a controlled fall using the throttle to bring you out it. I'm being serious. To make the best possible slow speed turn is basically doing the turn and letting it fall until you chicken out and give it gas or you scrape something. The turn can also be mitigated with the rear brake with practice. To do a steady turn requires a precise touch with the throttle - not an easy task with the CVT deadzone thus the need for a careful touch with the rear brake to not actually straighten the bike up. Suggest practicing in something like "the box" on a standard MSF course.
@jimc avatar
UTC

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 43686
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
 
Moderaptor
@jimc avatar
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 43686
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
UTC quote
On a CVT bike you should always use a little rear brake for slow speed riding. Then you can have the throttle open enough to keep the clutch engaged, and modulate the rear brake to control speed. This is absolutely analogous to clutch control on a manual vehicle.

The MP3 also needs a small amount of extra conscious counter-steering input at slow speeds which switches to ordinary steering just before coming to a stop. This is definitely a different feel to a two-wheeler, and can require some 'muscle'.
@rob_in_denver avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Mp3 500
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2320
Location: Denver Colorado
 
Ossessionato
@rob_in_denver avatar
Mp3 500
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2320
Location: Denver Colorado
UTC quote
And easy on the practise sessions riding the brake in slow speed manuveurs.
its a dry clutch, and you can damage it if you go on too long, from my understanding.
@jimc avatar
UTC

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 43686
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
 
Moderaptor
@jimc avatar
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 43686
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
UTC quote
Oh, absolutely. You'll know when the clutch is hot when the 'strangled sealion' starts up.
@alba avatar
UTC

Hooked
MP3 500, Kawasaki Versys, KLX250S, Buddy 150 Pamplona
Joined: UTC
Posts: 432
Location: Seattle
 
Hooked
@alba avatar
MP3 500, Kawasaki Versys, KLX250S, Buddy 150 Pamplona
Joined: UTC
Posts: 432
Location: Seattle
UTC quote
I suspect your prior experience on two wheels is hindering you on three, even if it was a long time ago. For me there is a big difference in how the two feel and handle. On two wheels you are finely balanced and everything is about a delicate touch, on three wheels you have to man handle it more and switching between the two can be a little unnerving at times.

When cornering on two wheels the lean is very progressive and natural. On three nothing much happens till you give it some more input and then, whoa, over we go. I think this might explain your "planted" feeling you referred to in your other post. When all I had was the MP3 it all felt very natural and safe. With a 2 wheeler in the stable it all got a little more difficult.

Having said all that I believe the MP3 is much easier to ride at slow speeds. The "outrigger" stance of the 3 wheels gives you more stability. Not having to balance a clutch makes sudden a change of speed and direction very simple (which is why scooters are easy to ride in the city). Perhaps tight u-turns may be more of a challenge where you are fighting that sudden tipping over feeling, but that is something you can master with some (many!) hours in a parking lot.
@sanogeo1 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Red Mp 3 500
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1519
Location: Norman, Oklahoma. USA
 
Molto Verboso
@sanogeo1 avatar
Red Mp 3 500
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1519
Location: Norman, Oklahoma. USA
UTC quote
I've had that O'crap feeling several times in slow tight turns with two up. Saved us by using a little gas and brake at the same time. Well almost, truth be told I remembered to do it in a panic and got on it too hard both times and almost went over the other way Wha? emoticon . Guess it is going to take a little more practice before it gets natural. I was making u turns both times
@jimc avatar
UTC

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 43686
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
 
Moderaptor
@jimc avatar
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 43686
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
UTC quote
Practising smooth tight U-turns two-up is one of the best exercises a rider can do for slow-speed control to get expertise for any other slow-speed situation. Highly recommended!
UTC

Hooked
MP3 400 (Sold), T Max (Sold), Reflex (Sold), Honda VFR1200F DCT (Sold), Silverwing
Joined: UTC
Posts: 102
Location: Maryland
 
Hooked
MP3 400 (Sold), T Max (Sold), Reflex (Sold), Honda VFR1200F DCT (Sold), Silverwing
Joined: UTC
Posts: 102
Location: Maryland
UTC quote
I've found that I can do the MSF box figure 8 at higher speeds on my MP3 than my TMax, Reflex or VFR1200F DCT. I'm not sure which is better at ultra low speeds. I'm only half owner of the VFR so don't push it as much so as not to drop it.

It took a while for me to get use to the "controlled fall" of the MP3 in very low speed turns but now its pretty much instinctive and its way easier to do tight turns at higher speeds with it than my other rides.

A riding buddy and I have an ongoing competition at the local MSF course to see who can do the most figure 8s at the highest speed. So far we're about even up. He rides a sport bike, has about 400K more riding miles than me and has a huge control problem when we switch rides.

The MP3, IMO, has some unique cornering abilities that two wheelers don't have.
UTC

Hooked
Piaggio mp3 500
Joined: UTC
Posts: 138
Location: NYC
 
Hooked
Piaggio mp3 500
Joined: UTC
Posts: 138
Location: NYC
UTC quote
Yesterday I saw an mp3 (with 2-up) in really slow traffic, near a stop light. The guy turned his wheels left and right, seeming to get his balance while moving at probably 2 mph towards the stop light. Then he put his foot out to the ground at the light.

Does this work? Couldn't you could just lock the steering as you come to the stop?
@jimc avatar
UTC

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 43686
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
 
Moderaptor
@jimc avatar
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 43686
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
UTC quote
Two-up I find feeling settled on my own feet is best - then engaging the lock. Just me, I mostly use the lock 'instinctively'.
@stickyfrog avatar
UTC

Moderatus Rana
MP3 250 and 2 MP3 500s
Joined: UTC
Posts: 22659
Location: Nashville, Indiana
 
Moderatus Rana
@stickyfrog avatar
MP3 250 and 2 MP3 500s
Joined: UTC
Posts: 22659
Location: Nashville, Indiana
UTC quote
Yep two up changes everything unless you do it everyday and have a good cupcake.
UTC

Molto Verboso
Piaggio mp3 500
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1312
Location: Longview,Texas 75604
 
Molto Verboso
Piaggio mp3 500
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1312
Location: Longview,Texas 75604
UTC quote
Slow turns on MP3.

Remember the gyroscope effect. Alittle fuel wth a little rear brake makes the MP3 bike stand upright. I am still working onthe tight right and left u-turns on the training course.
@jimc avatar
UTC

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 43686
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
 
Moderaptor
@jimc avatar
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 43686
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
UTC quote
Any 'gyroscope' effect is minimal on an MP3. Actually on any bike once you understand the physics.

Straight line stability is all about rake and lean.
@sanogeo1 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Red Mp 3 500
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1519
Location: Norman, Oklahoma. USA
 
Molto Verboso
@sanogeo1 avatar
Red Mp 3 500
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1519
Location: Norman, Oklahoma. USA
UTC quote
I do a lot of 2 up now. Sandy has really took to ridding. But at 64 for her and 68 for me I worry about hurting her in a fall. At our age we don't heal as fast. Even tho I wear braces on both legs I have no problem holding us up when stopping, (knock on wood) I always use tilt lock after coming to a full stop. Do it without thinking now. Will not try to lock it while still rolling. Upper legs very strong from years of working them out. My ankles will not work, so the need for braces. Going to large parking lot to do slow large U turns while two up. I can do one fine 1 up, need more practice on two up. They have a msf course 2 up locally. I am going to take it later. 7000 miles and growing. Had scoot one year now 8)
@sanogeo1 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Red Mp 3 500
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1519
Location: Norman, Oklahoma. USA
 
Molto Verboso
@sanogeo1 avatar
Red Mp 3 500
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1519
Location: Norman, Oklahoma. USA
UTC quote
Just had a thought, All my U turns are to the left. I guess because we ride on the right side of the road. Even when in parking lots.
@gonzob avatar
UTC

Addicted
Previously:Fuoco 500ie with Active Suspension. Now: CTX700
Joined: UTC
Posts: 663
Location: Sydney, Australia
 
Addicted
@gonzob avatar
Previously:Fuoco 500ie with Active Suspension. Now: CTX700
Joined: UTC
Posts: 663
Location: Sydney, Australia
UTC quote
I can do tighter low speed turns on my Fuoco than I could on my HD Road King. I put it down to the shorter wheelbase and the smaller wheels.

As far as stability is concerned I don't think there's much in it. I use the rear brake ALL the time for low speed turns, as I did with the HD. The rear brake is essential IMHO. Of course, using it is easier on the Fuoco.

The biggest change with the MP3 is the fact that if I dropped the HD it would sit on the footpeg and crash bar and just grind off a bit of metal (the Harley had lots of that). If I drop the Fuoco, I first have to pick it up (much harder than the HD) and then have to repair lots of plastic bits. Makes you think twice about doing tricky manouevres.

Gonzo.

PS. I agree with JimC re the pillion stuff. It's excellent exercise. The biggest problem I have is that my elbows hit my missus' knees when doing a tight turn.
DoubleGood Design banner

Modern Vespa is the premier site for modern Vespa and Piaggio scooters. Vespa GTS300, GTS250, GTV, GT200, LX150, LXS, ET4, ET2, MP3, Fuoco, Elettrica and more.

Buy Me A Coffee
 

Shop on Amazon with Modern Vespa

Modern Vespa is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com


All Content Copyright 2005-2024 by Modern Vespa.
All Rights Reserved.


[ Time: 0.0160s ][ Queries: 3 (0.0073s) ][ live ][ 313 ][ ThingOne ]