@caschnd1 avatar
UTC

Grumpy Biker
1980 Vespa P200e (sold), 2002 Vespa ET4 (sold), 1949 Harley-Davidson FL
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Grumpy Biker
@caschnd1 avatar
1980 Vespa P200e (sold), 2002 Vespa ET4 (sold), 1949 Harley-Davidson FL
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UTC quote
Interesting! I just checked the close-up photos I have of the bare ET4 body and it's fully boxed in the same way. Maybe I should pull out the plug on my wife's ET4 and let the air flow over the head. We need all the cooling we can get in Arizona during the warm months. Especially for a air cooled motor.

-Craig
@gogogordy avatar
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UTC quote
caschnd1 wrote:
Interesting! I just checked the close-up photos I have of the bare ET4 body and it's fully boxed in the same way. Maybe I should pull out the plug on my wife's ET4 and let the air flow over the head. We need all the cooling we can get in Arizona during the warm months. Especially for a air cooled motor.

-Craig
Unless its a diesel, extra cooling never hurts.
OP
@louswheel avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
150 Sprint Veloce, RE Meteor 350
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Molto Verboso
@louswheel avatar
150 Sprint Veloce, RE Meteor 350
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UTC quote
jess wrote:
So clearly the air flows through the spines and onto the head of the engine.

Sounds like additional air cooling for the engine itself.
Maybe, but where it's positioned doesn't make it practical. If the hole was positioned any lower, then rain and muck will be splashed into it by the tyres- any higher, and it's obscured by the mudguard, so making it impracticable for an air vent..
Graham
@jimc avatar
UTC

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
 
Moderaptor
@jimc avatar
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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UTC quote
I now reckon it's for ventilation to remove any condensation. Where it's placed it's unlikely to get water in, as it's well shielded by the front mudguard.
@silver_streak avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 Vespa LX 190, 2011 LXV150ie
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@silver_streak avatar
2007 Vespa LX 190, 2011 LXV150ie
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UTC quote
jimc wrote:
I now reckon it's for ventilation to remove any condensation. Where it's placed it's unlikely to get water in, as it's well shielded by the front mudguard.
That sounds like as good a theory as any.
@nightwing avatar
UTC

Contributor
2007 LX 150 (memories)
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Location: New Hampshire
 
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@nightwing avatar
2007 LX 150 (memories)
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UTC quote
Ok, nobody likes my theory. Nobody wants to admit that they may be the owner of a Vespa made of punch-outs. Razz emoticon
@brown_beret7 avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
1975 Vespa GTR 125, 1976 Vespa V90 (Resto), 2001 Vespa ET4 125 (Sold), 2009 Vespa GTS300 Super
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@brown_beret7 avatar
1975 Vespa GTR 125, 1976 Vespa V90 (Resto), 2001 Vespa ET4 125 (Sold), 2009 Vespa GTS300 Super
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UTC quote
got mine wrote:
I think it allows air into the frame where the intake tube is.
I also have the Bra for a LX and that is a mounting point for the hooks.
Which intake tube? We've established the GTS intake for the engine air filter is within the engine bay, and the transmission cover air intake isn't a frame tube like the ET4 but direct into the cover via a filter.

Covers might use the hole as a mounting point but that'd be secondary to why it's actually there. Had a look at leg covers and how they mount - can only find Tucano Urbano Thermoscud ones and they mostly mount by velcro straps with no hooks. On the GTS one the front of the cover attaches to the indicator screws points.

Still puzzling...
@jess avatar
UTC

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UTC quote
brown_beret7 wrote:
Which intake tube? We've established the GTS intake for the engine air filter is within the engine bay, and the transmission cover air intake isn't a frame tube like the ET4 but direct into the cover via a filter.
No, that's not the case. The air intake for the GTS (and many others) is on the bottom of the airbox, just above the transmission. This part generally protrudes out of the bottom of the engine compartment, just below the plastic fairing.
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UTC quote
Silver Streak wrote:
jimc wrote:
I now reckon it's for ventilation to remove any condensation. Where it's placed it's unlikely to get water in, as it's well shielded by the front mudguard.
That sounds like as good a theory as any.
They're ALL good theories if you ask me Razz emoticon

(Thats half the fun of talking about it)
@silver_streak avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 Vespa LX 190, 2011 LXV150ie
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@silver_streak avatar
2007 Vespa LX 190, 2011 LXV150ie
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UTC quote
brown_beret7 wrote:
got mine wrote:
I think it allows air into the frame where the intake tube is.
I also have the Bra for a LX and that is a mounting point for the hooks.
Which intake tube? We've established the GTS intake for the engine air filter is within the engine bay, and the transmission cover air intake isn't a frame tube like the ET4 but direct into the cover via a filter.

Covers might use the hole as a mounting point but that'd be secondary to why it's actually there. Had a look at leg covers and how they mount - can only find Tucano Urbano Thermoscud ones and they mostly mount by velcro straps with no hooks. On the GTS one the front of the cover attaches to the indicator screws points.

Still puzzling...
Got Mine is talking about the intake tube for the CVT ventilation system that extends into the cavity beneath the floorboards on the left side.
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UTC

Banned
3:5
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Location: San Francisco
 
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UTC quote
jess wrote:
brown_beret7 wrote:
Which intake tube? We've established the GTS intake for the engine air filter is within the engine bay, and the transmission cover air intake isn't a frame tube like the ET4 but direct into the cover via a filter.
No, that's not the case. The air intake for the GTS (and many others) is on the bottom of the airbox, just above the transmission. This part generally protrudes out of the bottom of the engine compartment, just below the plastic fairing.
On most, but not all GTS!

There is at least one UK GTS that has an air box that draws in from the front and is well inside the engine bay.

Air Filter mod - picture and measurements added.
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
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UTC

Member
gts250ie
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Location: Coventry (UK)
 
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UTC quote
I have also noticed that hole on my 08 250 GTS and on my sons Gts 300 super. My theory is that air travels through the hole and is deflected downwards causing hot air from around the radiators to be sucked down with it and it then exits through the gills on the lower sill panels. At the same time cold air is drawn in through the air grilles on the sides of the glovebox towards the radiators to maintain a constant air flow. Its only theory.....
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UTC quote
Ghostrider wrote:
I have also noticed that hole on my 08 250 GTS and on my sons Gts 300 super. My theory is that air travels through the hole and is deflected downwards causing hot air from around the radiators to be sucked down with it and it then exits through the gills on the lower sill panels. At the same time cold air is drawn in through the air grilles on the sides of the glovebox towards the radiators to maintain a constant air flow. Its only theory.....
And another darn good one at that!
@caschnd1 avatar
UTC

Grumpy Biker
1980 Vespa P200e (sold), 2002 Vespa ET4 (sold), 1949 Harley-Davidson FL
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@caschnd1 avatar
1980 Vespa P200e (sold), 2002 Vespa ET4 (sold), 1949 Harley-Davidson FL
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Posts: 5423
Location: Sparks, Nevada, USA
UTC quote
Ghostrider wrote:
I have also noticed that hole on my 08 250 GTS and on my sons Gts 300 super. My theory is that air travels through the hole and is deflected downwards causing hot air from around the radiators to be sucked down with it and it then exits through the gills on the lower sill panels. At the same time cold air is drawn in through the air grilles on the sides of the glovebox towards the radiators to maintain a constant air flow. Its only theory.....
Interesting theory... but the ET4 body is built exactly the same with the hole, the enclosed box section, and the exit holes back by the HT coil. The ET4 has no radiators though.

-Craig
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Addicted
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UTC quote
FWIW, my 2003 ET4 has the hole, too, but no plug. Looking at that hole, I really believe it's for air flow to help fight against rust. You're not going to get much air going in there when riding, but it keeps that part of the frame from being tightly enclosed and keeping humidity in thus increasing the chance of rust.

Eric
@jess avatar
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UTC quote
caschnd1 wrote:
Interesting theory... but the ET4 body is built exactly the same with the hole, the enclosed box section, and the exit holes back by the HT coil. The ET4 has no radiators though.
Also, the air going through that hole has absolutely no way of getting to the radiators on a GT/GTS.
@lomunchi avatar
UTC

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2020 Honda NC750DCT
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2020 Honda NC750DCT
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UTC quote
!
How else do you think the squirrels get out for their coffee break!

BTW, you can add a few more HP if you shove another squirrel in there... try it!
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UTC

Hooked
GTS 250ie Dragon red
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Location: The other Washington
 
Hooked
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GTS 250ie Dragon red
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UTC quote
Had a thought about how the air flow through the hole could be checked. Fan placed in front of vespa with a smoke bomb between the fan and vespa. Keeping everything at a reasonable safe distance, fire extinguisher and emergency phone handy. Someting always goes wrong. See where the smoke comes out of the vespa after it enters the hole. I just checked my stash of fireworks and couldn't find a smoke bomb so here's a chance for anyone willing to give a little experimental science a try.
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UTC quote
Silver Streak wrote:
brown_beret7 wrote:
got mine wrote:
I think it allows air into the frame where the intake tube is.
I also have the Bra for a LX and that is a mounting point for the hooks.
Which intake tube? We've established the GTS intake for the engine air filter is within the engine bay, and the transmission cover air intake isn't a frame tube like the ET4 but direct into the cover via a filter.

Covers might use the hole as a mounting point but that'd be secondary to why it's actually there. Had a look at leg covers and how they mount - can only find Tucano Urbano Thermoscud ones and they mostly mount by velcro straps with no hooks. On the GTS one the front of the cover attaches to the indicator screws points.

Still puzzling...
Got Mine is talking about the intake tube for the CVT ventilation system that extends into the cavity beneath the floorboards on the left side.
I looked at the GT200L service manual, and it shows a ducted intake for the CVT same as the ET series bikes.

Every GT Ive seen has a more passive (non ducted) air intake on the CVT,the same one we see on all following iterations of the large framed Vespa since the original GT...GTS, GTV, Super.

So I'm thinking "the hole" was originally planned for CVT cooling air, and Piaggio re-designed the CVT intake and eliminated the ducted intake, and never bothered to go to the expense to re-tool the dies made for the frames and eliminate the hole after a re-design to the tranny intake.

Thats my newest, and bestest theory on the subject.
@jess avatar
UTC

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UTC quote
gogogordy wrote:
So I'm thinking "the hole" was originally planned for CVT cooling air, and Piaggio re-designed the CVT intake and eliminated the ducted intake, and never bothered to go to the expense to re-tool the dies made for the frames and eliminate the hole after a re-design to the tranny intake.
Early GTs did, in fact, have a ducted air intake for the transmission. The hose went up and inside the engine compartment, but I don't really know where it went after that. I don't think it went anywhere near the tunnel, though.

It was a failure, and Piaggio replaced it very quickly with the intake we know today on the GT and GTS.
@brown_beret7 avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
1975 Vespa GTR 125, 1976 Vespa V90 (Resto), 2001 Vespa ET4 125 (Sold), 2009 Vespa GTS300 Super
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@brown_beret7 avatar
1975 Vespa GTR 125, 1976 Vespa V90 (Resto), 2001 Vespa ET4 125 (Sold), 2009 Vespa GTS300 Super
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Location: Northants UK
UTC quote
gogogordy wrote:
Thats my newest, and bestest theory on the subject.
I'm liking this one myself
@nigelthefish avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
ET2, PX150
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Posts: 3410
Location: Denver CO
 
Ossessionato
@nigelthefish avatar
ET2, PX150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3410
Location: Denver CO
UTC quote
A place to mount a pole to paint it maybe? I know old Mini's had a hold in the dash that they mounted a pole to for painting, after paint they tossed the speedo in the same hole. Coould be for that.
@brown_beret7 avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
1975 Vespa GTR 125, 1976 Vespa V90 (Resto), 2001 Vespa ET4 125 (Sold), 2009 Vespa GTS300 Super
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6064
Location: Northants UK
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@brown_beret7 avatar
1975 Vespa GTR 125, 1976 Vespa V90 (Resto), 2001 Vespa ET4 125 (Sold), 2009 Vespa GTS300 Super
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6064
Location: Northants UK
UTC quote
nigelthefish wrote:
A place to mount a pole to paint it maybe? I know old Mini's had a hold in the dash that they mounted a pole to for painting, after paint they tossed the speedo in the same hole. Coould be for that.
I was going to say no, then re-ran the vids in this post showing the dip tanks and the paint line at Pontedera...

How a Modern Vespa is made..

then it was maybe for a few minutes...but in the end I settled with No.
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