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Howdy,

I hope to buy my first Vespa this summer. I have been doing my research and have heard that as the purchaser, I should not have to pay freight charges because they are already included in the msrp cost, and that this charge is simply a way for the dealer to make a little extra $$.

Does anyone have any experience with this??

Thanks ahead of time...
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Only in the US, where sadly it is true.

Most other places, the displayed price has to be what the retailer will take to hand over to you with no extra charges, including any taxes.

However, I'm sure you know as a US denizen that this applies to new cars etc as well, and even beer at the supermarket (local taxes are NOT included in the displayed 'offer to treat' price), so it should be no surprise to you (though it was a complete shock to me as an outsider).
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I disagree. Freight costs are real and not included in the MSRP. The selling dealer may agree to absorb the freight cost, but it is truly his loss. Setup costs are also real and sometimes those can be negotiated, but those are real costs. The dealer is not always the bad guy and trying to wheedle him out of his profit is a bit unfair. There are many dealers who went under because they couldn't make any money. Remember, after the sale, it is nice to have a dealer to go back to if there are issues with the bike.
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Dealer gets charged the freight....
It's like buying a car, it's called Destination charge.

I tend to remind people here in Dallas that when they buy a Cadillac Escalade, built right here in arlington, tx, they don't mind paying the $800+ destination charge when the dealer is only 15 miles from the factory.

It costs $$ to have the bike sent to the dealer.
Even from the warehouse to the dealer.
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NightWing wrote:
I disagree. Freight costs are real and not included in the MSRP.
Only in North America. Elsewhere the displayed price is the *maximum* the retailer can demand.

Far fairer.

I really don't get why the US retailers (of anything) shouldn't by law display *what the customer is expected to pay* instead of almost always (excluding Oregon) something less.

Frankly it sucks big time.
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Re: Freight charges
jhargus wrote:
I have been doing my research and have heard that as the purchaser, I should not have to pay freight charges because they are already included in the msrp cost, and that this charge is simply a way for the dealer to make a little extra $$.
You have been misinformed. Freight is not part of MSRP.
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True. And US MSRP (as set by Piaggio USA) is way out of line with the RotW in terms of mark-up.

My local dealer expects to get 15% on parts and 25% on accessories. In the US dealers seem to expect 40% and 100% respectively. Plus Piaggio USA charges US dealers more for parts than retailers sell for with full profit in the EU.

Too many middle monkeys, too low a volume, too high a price.

Even with the recent EU Piaggio price hikes, I can still order parts when in the USA for far less from the EU including shipping. That is really, really stupid. Piaggio dealers in the US should challenge Piaggio USA with this and make it *equal*. Then the local dealer can continue to sell over the counter without so much worry he's missing two-thirds of his sales to overseas.
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yup you pay freight because the freight is different according where the dealer is and how much they have to pay for the to be shipped to them. a dealer with in a few miles of the distribution center will be a lot less than 1 1500 miles away.
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old as dirt wrote:
yup you pay freight because the freight is different according where the dealer is and how much they have to pay for the to be shipped to them. a dealer with in a few miles of the distribution center will be a lot less than 1 1500 miles away.
I don't believe that is correct. This was researched and confirmed in the past. The freight is somewhat averaged out. I believe shipments enter the US through several ports.. Part of that freight is the ocean going transportation.
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NightWing wrote:
old as dirt wrote:
yup you pay freight because the freight is different according where the dealer is and how much they have to pay for the to be shipped to them. a dealer with in a few miles of the distribution center will be a lot less than 1 1500 miles away.
I don't believe that is correct. This was researched and confirmed in the past. The freight is somewhat averaged out. I believe shipments enter the US through several ports.. Part of that freight is the ocean going transportation.
you think a dealer in Kansas is going to pay the same shipping as a dealer in Socal near the port, or a Dealer in Atl nearer to the distribution center. ok then.

Edit: just found out that piaggio charges the same to all dealers.
Thats AFU. When my dad had his Suzuki dealership back in the 70's we would go into chicago to pick them up because the extra shipping to the shop was so much. there was x amount charged per area you were in then from the warehouse to the dealer was the extra.
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I hate to see my buddies at odds and don't want to contradict anyone however may I clarify this?

Best,
SDG
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SDG wrote:
I hate to see my buddies at odds and don't want to contradict anyone however may I clarify this?

Best,
SDG
yes please do.
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I have been working in transportation industry and freight for about 24 years now and I can promise you it is a very real cost and rising as fuel costs rise. Fuel alone adds an additional 31.5% as of last week for LTL (less than load) and changes will be determined by the U. S. National Average Fuel Index for diesel fuel as published by the U. S. Department of Energy. It is getting harder and harder for companies right now.
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Alright. Jess is correct as the freight charge we pay is absolutely separate of the invoice amount we pay for
scooters and motorcycles.

All USA dealers pay the same freight charge regardless of
our location as there would be an unfair disadvantage to those dealers that paid more than others.

Hope that helps...

Best,
SDG
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thanks SDG for clearing up the dealer charges from Piaggio.
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SDG wrote:
Alright. Jess is correct as the freight charge we pay is absolutely separate of the invoice amount we pay for
scooters and motorcycles.

All USA dealers pay the same freight charge regardless of
our location as there would be an unfair disadvantage to those dealers that paid more than others.

Hope that helps...

Best,
SDG
Good to know Dave. That seems like it could be a little unfair for you given your proximity to the LA ports? Inbound container rates change often and depending on such things as origin country, the size of the container (I am guessing you use a 40' HC). A dealer for example in Kansas City still has much more cost to get it landed at his location. Dave, do you buy by the container or the unit. Just wondering.. Nerd emoticon
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We pay by the unit however I buy like a container at a time.

SDG
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SDG wrote:
We pay by the unit however I buy like a container at a time.

SDG
Funny, so both apply. I had a feeling you would be one of the few willing or able to move that kind of volume. Last question? Do your Vespa's always ship out of Italy? I would think the answer would be yes but you never know...
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2011Super wrote:
SDG wrote:
We pay by the unit however I buy like a container at a time.

SDG
Funny, so both apply. I had a feeling you would be one of the few willing or able to move that kind of volume. Last question? Do your Vespa's always ship out of Italy? I would think the answer would be yes but you never know...
The ones that are built in Italy are shipped from Italy. The Fly 150 and 50, the Scarabeo 200 and 100, the Typhoon and the Sport City 125 are shipped from that "other" Country.

Staff did I miss one?

Best,
SDG
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SDG wrote:
2011Super wrote:
SDG wrote:
We pay by the unit however I buy like a container at a time.

SDG
Funny, so both apply. I had a feeling you would be one of the few willing or able to move that kind of volume. Last question? Do your Vespa's always ship out of Italy? I would think the answer would be yes but you never know...
The ones that are built in Italy are shipped from Italy. The Fly 150 and 50, the Scarabeo 200 and 100, the Typhoon and the Sport City 125 are shipped from that "other" Country.

Staff did I miss one?

Best,
SDG
Clap emoticon Thanks Dave. Clap emoticon
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Not holding my breath
Lower prices are coming?
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I purchased my LX from Sherman Oaks and had it shipped to Oklahoma.
The dealer installed a Bitubo front shock at no charge (labor), serviced the bike and shipped it.
All I had to do was uncrate it and install the mirrors.
I'm very satisfied and got the rare white color and current model year.
I had a warranty issue with the left lever brake sensor. I called Sherman Oaks and had a brass replacement in 3 days.
Great People!
I split the headcover to remove the stupid pod turn signals and installed the Euro Conversion Kit. While I had it off I installed Dogleg levers.
The scooter had less than 50 miles on it then.
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Thanks everyone for taking time to share you answers with me. I respect that the dealer is trying to make a living, as we all are. I believe when I go to purchase my first Vespa that I will expect to pay freight costs and simply try to negotiate a deal that make the dealer and myself feel good at the end of the day.
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It may help to ask the dealer to provide you with the "out-the-door" (OTD) cost whenever a particular bike takes your fancy.

I can think of one dealer who used to provide both the MSRP and the detailed OTD price of all their scoots on their website, a practice they have since abandoned.

I suspect that the bottom line of MSRP + Freight + set-up + 'documenation fees' (which pay for the processing of all paperwork) + sales tax + registration + tags equaled an amount which chilled initial buyer passion.

In other words, potential buyers had their ardor cooled waaay too soon along the "I'm-interested, I'm staring-at-it, I'm-sitting-on-it, I'm-reading-about-it-on-the-web, Geez-how-cool-is-that?, I'm-fixating-on-the-doability-of-the-base-price, I've-gotten-a-real-Jones-and-gotta-have-it" Path.

If a potential buyer gets as far as the "Jones" step, his or her sheer desire will by then be so great as to motivate he or she to chloroform their own objections, and the scoot will likely sell; that person is already seeing himself or herself on the thing, riding, fulfilled, joyous. Publishing the OTD price, though, will forestall the process, resulting in the dreaded Purchasis Interruptus.

Many a soul has found that a $5999 bike will separate one from $7000 to ride it off the lot. Assuming, of course, that they've also bought a helmet, gloves, armored clothing, and boots, a hardened steel chain and lock, alarm, and even though they've decided to delay a windshield, a top box, accessory racks, yadayadayada, but have already paid for, taken, and passed the MSF BRC course, and are ready for those new insurance costs.

Freight? Hah. A mere bagatelle. But we may expect even that bagatelle to increase, as all transportation and shipping costs will rise with the cost of the petroleum that fuels it.

But that's the way it is, and the dealer is not screwing you. This is our business model, these are standard US practices, and are largely legitimate in application here (not to say that there aren't people doing questionable moves out there). By the time you have your 6K bike and all the stuff you want or are required to have for it, it's an almost-8K bike. Pretty much. You betcha.
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Is the "freight charge" subject to sales tax? If not, then you save that tax over having this imbedded in the MSRP. Only a couple of bucks, but every bit helps.
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Slightly not related, but a local dealer is clearing out last years models, so now LX 125 and S 125 go for $ 3,380 (everything included) which is significantly less than last year when they were asking $ 4,700 for the same models.
What I'm trying to say is there is room for negotiation.
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bobix wrote:
Slightly not related, but a local dealer is clearing out last years models, so now LX 125 and S 125 go for $ 3,380 (everything included) which is significantly less than last year when they were asking $ 4,700 for the same models.
What I'm trying to say is there is room for negotiation.
Nothing new.

FAQ: How negotiable is the price of a modern Vespa?
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Some people buy (finance) vehicles with little regard to overall price. What is the lowest monthly payment? Make it fit my monthly budget. Many can't tell you later what the overall cost was, even though it's on the contract. Also can't tell you approximate total finance charges.
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blackbart wrote:
Some people buy (finance) vehicles with little regard to overall price. What is the lowest monthly payment? Make it fit my monthly budget. Many can't tell you later what the overall cost was, even though it's on the contract. Also can't tell you approximate total finance charges.
For what it's worth, my purchase decision was based on all of the above, and I can rattle off my base price, OTD price and interest rate. Admittedly I would have to look up the prep and doc breakdown to get exactly what each subcharge was, but...
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SDG wrote:
2011Super wrote:
SDG wrote:
We pay by the unit however I buy like a container at a time.

SDG
Funny, so both apply. I had a feeling you would be one of the few willing or able to move that kind of volume. Last question? Do your Vespa's always ship out of Italy? I would think the answer would be yes but you never know...
The ones that are built in Italy are shipped from Italy. The Fly 150 and 50, the Scarabeo 200 and 100, the Typhoon and the Sport City 125 are shipped from that "other" Country.

Staff did I miss one?

Best,
SDG
And ALL Vespa, Piaggio, Aprilia scooters and motorcycles, and Moto Guzzi, one they hit the port, are warehoused right here in Texas... in Big D....
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Still insecure
I am also looking at buying my first scooter and just bumped up from Buddy to Vespa based on the sturdiness of the frame. What makes me feel a bit queasy is the way the charges morph. First I was told that they would be around $800 on a Fly and $900 on a S 150. Then I followed up on an ad for a less expensive 2010 S 150 and was told they would be $1300! I would be willing to bet that I would get a different number on a different day. This from a dealer well spoken here. A 40+% difference in OTD for the same bike makes me very insecure that I am getting the best deal.

I am curious: why would ANY of the charges besides tax vary based on the bike or model? Sounds more like profit than expense to me.

I may have to go back to a Buddy not just because of price but because the price seems consistent between visits and dealers. I will miss that Vespa frame and style though. Steve
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Freight and PDI (prep) costs should not vary from model to model. From dealer to dealer, perhaps.
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banjobo wrote:
I am curious: why would ANY of the charges besides tax vary based on the bike or model? Sounds more like profit than expense to me.
Different models weigh different amounts and are different sizes, so shipping costs vary. Different models take different amounts of time to set up. Seems reasonable to me that these charges would vary from model to model. And, as you and others have observed, dealers do negotiate OTD price which means they are reducing their profit margin to cover these real costs. None of that is any different with Genuine Buddys. I have one. I paid MSRP, plus shipping, plus set-up, plus title and registration for the Buddy when it was purchased (no sales tax in OR). The dealer negotiated the OTD price as an incentive for me to buy the scooter. No different than many experience with Vespa and Piaggio scooters.

(and for what it is worth - I really don't think the metal monocoque frame of the Vespa is any "sturdier" than the tubular frame of a Genuine Buddy or of a Piaggio scooter. The metal body of the Vespa is attractive, has a classic look, takes a good paint job, AND is vulnerable to damage - but I don't believe it is any stronger)
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paige wrote:
Freight and PDI (prep) costs should not vary from model to model. From dealer to dealer, perhaps.
That has already been addressed. Freight charges are the same for every dealer.
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So everyone's saying that the $$ flow ends when the vehicle is delivered.

Does it?

Does the dealer get any $ from Piaggio after the scoot is sold?
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Thanks for both answers
Dooglas wrote:
(and for what it is worth - I really don't think the metal monocoque frame of the Vespa is any "sturdier" than the tubular frame of a Genuine Buddy or of a Piaggio scooter. The metal body of the Vespa is attractive, has a classic look, takes a good paint job, AND is vulnerable to damage - but I don't believe it is any stronger)
Thanks, Dooglas--you answered my implied question as well as my direct one. I would really like to get a Buddy, if indeed it can handle my 200 lbs over the long term. I am sure you are familiar with the Piaggio claim that it can only handle 174 lbs, which to be fair matches nothing else I have seen.
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redhandmoto wrote:
I suspect that the bottom line of MSRP + Freight + set-up + 'documenation fees' (which pay for the processing of all paperwork) + sales tax + registration + tags equaled an amount which chilled initial buyer passion. .
Yeah, I think you're right. I agree with jimc in that it makes no sense why in the US most retail prices aren't the prices one pays. This may not be too big of a deal for, say, grocery store prices, but makes a big difference for big ticket items.
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muriel wrote:
redhandmoto wrote:
I suspect that the bottom line of MSRP + Freight + set-up + 'documenation fees' (which pay for the processing of all paperwork) + sales tax + registration + tags equaled an amount which chilled initial buyer passion. .
Yeah, I think you're right. I agree with jimc in that it makes no sense why in the US most retail prices aren't the prices one pays. This may not be too big of a deal for, say, grocery store prices, but makes a big difference for big ticket items.
MSRP and "Destination Charges" can be and are set by the manufacturer. MSRP is less likely to change during a given "model year" than destination charges. However, since transportation costs can vary due to a variety of factors, the US practice is to cite the destination charge separately.

In the US, Set-up + 'documenation fees' (which pay for the processing of all paperwork) + sales tax + registration + tags will vary from location to location, as states and municipalities impose different rates. It would be damn near impossible to state a MSRP that included these items unless it was location by location.

In Europe, the taxes and delivery charges on a vehicle are typically included in the price, as taxes within the various countries are uniform and distances over which a scooter would be shipped are minor within each country. Thus, if you check the advertized price for a Vespa in a couple of different EU countries, the advertized price will vary from country to country. If you walk in the door with that much money in hand, other than the cost of title and registration, you will have enough to by the scooter.
@muriel avatar
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Molto Verboso
BV 250
Joined: UTC
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Location: Virginia & North Carolina, USA
 
Molto Verboso
@muriel avatar
BV 250
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1356
Location: Virginia & North Carolina, USA
UTC quote
Aviator47 wrote:
.

In the US, Set-up + 'documenation fees' (which pay for the processing of all paperwork) + sales tax + registration + tags will vary from location to location, as states and municipalities impose different rates. It would be damn near impossible to state a MSRP that included these items unless it was location by location.
But it is possible. I go to a dealership and they always quote me the MSRP, not actual number it would cost me. Piaggio can list the MSRP, no problem, but no consumer buys from Piaggio. We all buy from a dealer and I'd wish dealers would cite the actual price to pay.
@nightwing avatar
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Contributor
2007 LX 150 (memories)
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Contributor
@nightwing avatar
2007 LX 150 (memories)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8559
Location: New Hampshire
UTC quote
muriel wrote:
Aviator47 wrote:
.

In the US, Set-up + 'documenation fees' (which pay for the processing of all paperwork) + sales tax + registration + tags will vary from location to location, as states and municipalities impose different rates. It would be damn near impossible to state a MSRP that included these items unless it was location by location.
But it is possible. I go to a dealership and they always quote me the MSRP, not actual number it would cost me. Piaggio can list the MSRP, no problem, but no consumer buys from Piaggio. We all buy from a dealer and I'd wish dealers would cite the actual price to pay.
If they did, buyers would scream they were being gouged. "Whattya mean, $1100 over MSRP? You crook!"

It is a simple formula.

MSRP is what the manufacturer sets as a suggested retail price.
Freight is a real cost paid by the dealer and passed on to buyer.
State/local taxes as required, passed on to buyer.
Registration fees, passed on to buyer.
Title fees, passed on to buyer.

This is no different than buying a car, except there isn't nearly enough room to play with the selling price.

If it is too expensive or you don't like the pricing structure, walk out. Don't buy it.
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