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Has anyone else experienced this problem? When I put my GTS 250 on the center kickstand, then take it off, there are two distinct scuffs on the cement where it was. I don't mean just marks that rub off, it actually digs two distinct gouges in the cement. I have notice this at the last two houses I have lived at. I know the dry weight of the Vespa is over 300 lbs, but is there any way I can avoid these gouges? I now have a nice garage. I really don't want to replace the kickstand. For now, I am trying a towel underneath the stand......
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UTC quote
Re: kickstand digging into concrete
coolcatlaw wrote:
Has anyone else experienced this problem? When I put my GTS 250 on the center kickstand, then take it off, there are two distinct scuffs on the cement where it was. I don't mean just marks that rub off, it actually digs two distinct gouges in the cement. I have notice this at the last two houses I have lived at. I know the dry weight of the Vespa is over 300 lbs, but is there any way I can avoid these gouges? I now have a nice garage. I really don't want to replace the kickstand. For now, I am trying a towel underneath the stand......
The black, rubber-backed doormats with short, loop-pile carpeting on them work well, are cheap, and wear forever.
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What Silver Streak said...........or put a piece of plywood on the floor in that area and use it to park the scooter on.
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You said concrete, but I think/hope you meant asphalt. There is a difference .

I find that on conrete (light gray, white, sand coored surfaces) this is not a problem, and it certainly doesn't impact the concrete in my garage where I park both my scooter and mu much heaver sport tourere.

However, out and about, or at the office, that store changes. Asphalt (black, dark gray, occasionally mixed with stone or shell) is a completely different surface. By it's very nature, it is softer, making it more resilient to wear and tear from tires, but sharp hard things like side stands and center stands will settle into the surface. As temperatures rise, it happens faster.

Because I frequently park on gravel and asphalt surfaces for extended periods of time, I long ago went to carrying a few of these on my bikes, as well as at the office I have permanently attached a couple in parking spaces.

http://motorcycle-gadgets.com/viewitem.php?productid=9



[img]http://motorcycle-gadgets.com/ccdata/images/imageMain_7_9.bmp[/img]
OP
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no, it is not asphalt, but is actually concrete it is gouging up. Actually, scuffing up is a more accurate term, it is not taking out chunks, but scratching it up quite badly. Maybe they are not making concrete the way they used to....
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dru_ wrote:
By it's very nature, it is softer, making it more resilient to wear and tear
Wha? emoticon ?
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UTC quote
dru_ wrote:
You said concrete, but I think/hope you meant asphalt. There is a difference .

I find that on conrete (light gray, white, sand coored surfaces) this is not a problem, and it certainly doesn't impact the concrete in my garage where I park both my scooter and mu much heaver sport tourere.
The OP is talking about the centre-stand, not the side-stand.

The use of 'kick-stand' is confusing.
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Jim is correct. I am referring to the center stand. I will employ the rug/mat as suggested. I was just very surprised, couldn't figure out what was making the scuff marks, until one day, after pulling Vespa off the stand, looked down, and there were the two scuffs......
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I suspect that the scraping occurs because you put the scoot on the center stand, and then turn the front wheel to lock it, without taking the load off the front end. When the bike is on the stand and the front wheel is turned, the front tire's contact patch moves slightly to the side, causing the other two corners of "the support triangle" (the center stand's feet) to skew on the cement. The answer is to lift the front wheel slightly off the ground before turning it to the side; this is easily done by pushing down on the back of the seat or a grab rail, while turning the wheel.
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UTC quote
The scraping happens without locking the steering. The feet at the bottom of the stand get roughened, and when the bike gets up on the stand, the whole bike will skid slightly backwards. The crushing while it goes up and the scraping as it settles ensure even the toughest concrete will get marked (e.g. the concrete paving stones in my front drive). Shiny screeds that are typically found in US garages are particularly vulnerable to this.

A carpet tile is a good non-skid protection, and will allow 'bumping' the bike off the centre-stand while astride the bike - which is often impossible on the screed.
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UTC quote
There's concrete and then there's concrete. The formula of the original mix, the care taken during the pour and finishing, and the age of the concrete (it can take up to three years to fully cure) are all factors that will effect how resistant it is to scraping/gouging. My original driveway and sidewalk were very soft and gouged easily from my centerstand. I had them replaced a couple years by a good concrete contractor and the new one barely shows marks.
The mat does sound like a good idea, though, because the new concrete is pretty smooth and I have to put my foot against the lever on the stand to get the scooter off or it will slide.
Thanks, Silver Streak, for the idea.
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mike_bike_kite wrote:
dru_ wrote:
By it's very nature, it is softer, making it more resilient to wear and tear
Wha? emoticon ?
Think through it.... Concrete is a sand, and rock based mixture that hardens as the moisture evaporates. It is prone to cracking and pitting due to weight and temperature changes. It tends to be a preferred surface in area where freezing temperatures are not a regular occurrence e, but extreme heat is. As a surface it tends to become very rough very quickly. Think I10 through the Florida panhandle.

now think about asphalt. Because of the tar based nature, it becomes soft in the heat, and generally holds up better to tire wear, though it can be easily gouged by hard surfaces. While it is prone to potholes due to moisture trapped under neath it during freeze and thaw conditions, the surface itself tends to be more commonly used as a cheaper and longer lasting surface in many areas.

Remember, tar may be not be soft like bubble gum, but is still more accurately a fluid than a solid...
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kick(center) stand
My way of solving the problem of a very smooth concrete floor would probably take care of your problem also...I need a surface that will hold the centerstand feet when I'm taking the scooter off, but these would sure take care of the marks. I bought a package of modular rubber foam pads from Sams and put it just in front of the rear wheel so the center stand feet hit on it. Don't remember the trade name, but they come eight to a package and can be interlocked for a workbench mat or so, but one is about 2 1/2 - 3 feet square. I'm sure they are available elsewhere also.

They are also convenient for rolling around on checking the tire pressure, oil levels, etc. rather than on the bare concrete floor.


karlu
las cruces, nm
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Re: kick(center) stand
karlu wrote:
My way of solving the problem of a very smooth concrete floor would probably take care of your problem also...I need a surface that will hold the centerstand feet when I'm taking the scooter off, but these would sure take care of the marks. I bought a package of modular rubber foam pads from Sams and put it just in front of the rear wheel so the center stand feet hit on it. Don't remember the trade name, but they come eight to a package and can be interlocked for a workbench mat or so, but one is about 2 1/2 - 3 feet square. I'm sure they are available elsewhere also.

They are also convenient for rolling around on checking the tire pressure, oil levels, etc. rather than on the bare concrete floor.


karlu
las cruces, nm
I have those on a lot of my concrete shop floor, but they have a fairly thin "skin" over the softer foam inside. Not sure how well they'd hold up long-term under a centerstand.
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dru_ wrote:
Think through it....
I'll bow to your knowledge but it seems very counter intuitive to me
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foam pads
Silver

You're right...the pads do take a "set" from the centerstand feet, but it seems not to be permanent. By the time I take a scooter off them, ride a while, come home, they're fairly much gone. At least that's what I've noticed over the past two-three years of using them.

And, they really do help get the scooter off the centerstand.

karlu
las cruces, nm
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UTC quote
Re: kickstand digging into concrete
Silver Streak wrote:
The black, rubber-backed doormats with short, loop-pile carpeting on them work well, are cheap, and wear forever.
+1. I bought a single black rubber car footwell mat for £1 at a local store and it works just fine on my concrete garage floor - I had the same problem.

I think we saw good use of the slot together floor tiles in the recent thread on 'Jess Garage Reveal'?
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Likely, poor finishing techniques, or component ratios. It is a common practice to use fly ash, in the mix ratio, to save money fly ash has quality issues in my experience. Spalling is common.
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tomjasz wrote:
Likely, poor finishing techniques, or component ratios. It is a common practice to use fly ash, in the mix ratio, to save money fly ash has quality issues in my experience. Spalling is common.
also alot of folks don't use a concrete sealer , which helps harden the surface.
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I've done exactly what you described at my old gym. Small crater depressions. Whoopsie
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scrap of 1/4" plywood. done.
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mike_bike_kite wrote:
dru_ wrote:
By it's very nature, it is softer, making it more resilient to wear and tear
Wha? emoticon ?
An opinion not fact. Spent a bit reading in inherited road spec manuals. Pops was a highway engineer and I used them while at The Mirage to spec numerous projects. Concrete is much more noisy, but definitely tests out as being much more resilient. BTW blacktop aka bituminous concrete often has the same or very similar sand/gravel levels.
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I have a couple of small pieces of plywood under my scooter in the shed. You could get a bigger piece but i have 2 smaller ones. You can buy them like that and don't need to cut a bigger piece down.Works well and is firmer than a mat and more durable IMHO. I have a big Rubbermaid shed under the condo and the floor is soft so i need something firm. OOPS i see that MARC has said plywood already. Great minds etc. Laughing emoticon Good luck
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+ Rubber doormat/or/plywood work for me too
(overkill?) Added (screw in) feet to avoid marring sheeny floor. Spot is a dye stain (scrap piece I got at Home Depot)
(overkill?) Added (screw in) feet to avoid marring sheeny floor. Spot is a dye stain (scrap piece I got at Home Depot)
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Seems a brilliant solution to plywood sliding getting the scoot up on the stand!

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