Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:08 pm

Member
2006 LXV125 2010 LX50
Joined: 04 Jun 2014
Posts: 17
Location: New Zealand
 
Member
2006 LXV125 2010 LX50
Joined: 04 Jun 2014
Posts: 17
Location: New Zealand
Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:08 pm linkquote
Hi there Vespa LX community,

I am restoring an LXV 125 and it's almost complete. I am now trying to get it starting/running but it seems the immobiliser is not allowing me to start it. It has the factory immobiliser and an after market alarm. Maybe if I could get a clear wiring diagram I can bypass the immobiliser but the copy in the service manual is really unreadable.

Anyone out there know how do this, I will appreciate any inputs. Thanks.


Here's the picture of my almost finished LXV 125. Background is my LX 50

Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:36 pm

Destroyer of Worlds
LML Star 125, Vespa GT200
Joined: 12 Aug 2007
Posts: 2011
Location: London, United Kingdom
 
Destroyer of Worlds
LML Star 125, Vespa GT200
Joined: 12 Aug 2007
Posts: 2011
Location: London, United Kingdom
Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:36 pm linkquote
The immobiliser is integral with the ECU. To remove it, one would have to replace the entire unit with an aftermarket "performance" part at significant expense.

Or you could get a new (or used) stock part as long as it comes with the matching red-brown key.

Do you have the original red (or brown) key for this bike?
Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:34 pm

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 40581
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
 
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 40581
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:34 pm linkquote
Use the LX wiring diagram:
http://manuals.wotmeworry.org.uk/Vespa/LX125-150ie/

I'd start by removing the after-market alarm and binning it.

If you have at least a service (blue) key, and the code LED goes OFF eventually after switching the ignition ON, then the immobiliser is happy, and something else is up.

If you have the original brown key as well, and the immobiliser is showing the relevant codes for a non-recognised key (see the workshop manual) then you can re-program the ECU.

If you are still stuck, there are places that can put the ECU back to a virgin state (un-programmed) and/or clone keys for you.


It'd help if you stated what keys you have, and what the code LED shows with ignition off, and the number of flashes etc and if it stays on or off when the ignition is on.
Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:50 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
Granturismo 218
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 7253
Location: NWAOK
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Granturismo 218
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 7253
Location: NWAOK
Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:50 am linkquote
I just had a Piaggio in the shop with a bypassed immobilizer. There was a toggle switch in the glove compartment though, and you had to remember to turn it on or off or the bike would stay live.
The owner had bought the bike like that and wanted it restored so he could use the key and no toggle switch.

There are a lot of companies making bypass CDIs for Vespa models now, and if you can't get this one working, and it is the immobilizer, that's probably the easiest way to go in your part of the world.
Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:25 am

Addicted
Buddy 125, Scarabeo 150, Scarabeo 500ie, Triumphs, Vespa Sprint 150
Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 727
Location: Charleston,SC-Knoxville, TN- Sanibel, Florida
 
Addicted
Buddy 125, Scarabeo 150, Scarabeo 500ie, Triumphs, Vespa Sprint 150
Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 727
Location: Charleston,SC-Knoxville, TN- Sanibel, Florida
Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:25 am linkquote
I have a 2007 Scarabeo 500ie that I bought new in the crate and no one but me has serviced the scoot.

This scoot similarly has a factory fitted alarm/immobilizer that self arms two minutes after the scooter is shut off. It has always worked as designed until recently.

Now the alarm does not "self arm" after two minutes and the scooter now starts readily without de-arming the immobilizer system.

I noticed this when the key fob quit actuating the solenoid to unlatch the seat. I put new batteries in both factory key fobs and see no change in either the seat latch release or immobilizer functioning.

I actually prefer the system not to automatically arm itself because it is more convenient to use the scooter now. However, I wonder why the system went into the mode where the immobilizer quit working.

I don't want to hi-jack this thread but it seems relevant to this posting. In essence, my alarm/immobilizer has bypassed itself for some reason.

Any thoughts as to why the alarm/immobilizer bypassed itself, or if any related problems are yet to happen?

fried okra
Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:56 pm

Member
2006 LXV125 2010 LX50
Joined: 04 Jun 2014
Posts: 17
Location: New Zealand
 
Member
2006 LXV125 2010 LX50
Joined: 04 Jun 2014
Posts: 17
Location: New Zealand
Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:56 pm linkquote
ianp wrote:
The immobiliser is integral with the ECU. To remove it, one would have to replace the entire unit with an aftermarket "performance" part at significant expense.

Or you could get a new (or used) stock part as long as it comes with the matching red-brown key.

Do you have the original red (or brown) key for this bike?
Hi ianp,

Yes I realise that. I only have the Black/Blue color key. But it seems I may not have a problem with the immobiliser. I checked again yesterday and before I insert the key, code LED is flashing every second, after I insert the key and turn it to ON, the code LED is lit momentarily and goes OFF and the oil pressure LED comes ON. I understand this is the normal operation. I may have an electrical problem. Thanks for replying
Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:06 pm

Member
2006 LXV125 2010 LX50
Joined: 04 Jun 2014
Posts: 17
Location: New Zealand
 
Member
2006 LXV125 2010 LX50
Joined: 04 Jun 2014
Posts: 17
Location: New Zealand
Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:06 pm linkquote
jimc wrote:
Use the LX wiring diagram:
http://manuals.wotmeworry.org.uk/Vespa/LX125-150ie/

I'd start by removing the after-market alarm and binning it.

If you have at least a service (blue) key, and the code LED goes OFF eventually after switching the ignition ON, then the immobiliser is happy, and something else is up.

If you have the original brown key as well, and the immobiliser is showing the relevant codes for a non-recognised key (see the workshop manual) then you can re-program the ECU.

If you are still stuck, there are places that can put the ECU back to a virgin state (un-programmed) and/or clone keys for you.


It'd help if you stated what keys you have, and what the code LED shows with ignition off, and the number of flashes etc and if it stays on or off when the ignition is on.
Hi jimc,

Thanks for your inputs here. I check again yesterday and observed the CODE led as I inserted the black/blue key. This is what I observed: Without the key inserted, the CODE led is flashing regularly every second?, once I insert the key and turn it to ON, the CODE led turns on momentarily and goes OFF and the oil pressure led comes ON. Then tried starting but no response at all. The left brake lever seems to be working but not the right - I will need to check the switch. The turn signals do not seem to work at all. When I turn the switch to ON, I can operate the headlights and the back light is also on. That's as far I got yesterday. From what I describe above, it seems the immobiliser is working? and I may have some electrical issues. I've also checked the fuses in the front and the ones next to the battery and they are all OK. Will carry on check again later today. Thanks again for any further advise.
Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:47 pm

Ossessionato
Black Beater SH150i(31,000)Red Devil SH150i (2000)
Joined: 27 Dec 2013
Posts: 2826
Location: Orange Park Florida
 
Ossessionato
Black Beater SH150i(31,000)Red Devil SH150i (2000)
Joined: 27 Dec 2013
Posts: 2826
Location: Orange Park Florida
Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:47 pm linkquote
I may be wrong but when you turn the key, the oil light and the amber engine light should light up. Then after 2 seconds the amber light will go out. As jimc would say, "when you turn the key on you should hear the fuel pump prime". This depends on if you have fuel injection.
Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:47 pm

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 40581
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
 
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 40581
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:47 pm linkquote
This scoot is carb'd.

I still suspect the 'alarm' that had been fitted - what sort is it? I bet it's that that is interfering as it appears to be dead, assuming all fuses are good. Rip it out.
Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:56 pm

Member
2006 LXV125 2010 LX50
Joined: 04 Jun 2014
Posts: 17
Location: New Zealand
 
Member
2006 LXV125 2010 LX50
Joined: 04 Jun 2014
Posts: 17
Location: New Zealand
Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:56 pm linkquote
jimc wrote:
This scoot is carb'd.

I still suspect the 'alarm' that had been fitted - what sort is it? I bet it's that that is interfering as it appears to be dead, assuming all fuses are good. Rip it out.
Hi jimc,

Sorry I forgot to mention it in my earlier reply - I have actually taken out the alarm. The alarm is actually the piaggio one. I saw in youtube how it is installed, I just did the reverse to take it out.
Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:59 pm

Member
2006 LXV125 2010 LX50
Joined: 04 Jun 2014
Posts: 17
Location: New Zealand
 
Member
2006 LXV125 2010 LX50
Joined: 04 Jun 2014
Posts: 17
Location: New Zealand
Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:59 pm linkquote
breaknwind wrote:
I may be wrong but when you turn the key, the oil light and the amber engine light should light up. Then after 2 seconds the amber light will go out. As jimc would say, "when you turn the key on you should hear the fuel pump prime". This depends on if you have fuel injection.
hi breaknwind,

when I turn the switch to ON the CODE led which was flashing before I inserted the key turned on and then went OFF, at the same time as the oil light turned and stayed on. I don't hear anything after.
Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:05 pm

Member
2006 LXV125 2010 LX50
Joined: 04 Jun 2014
Posts: 17
Location: New Zealand
 
Member
2006 LXV125 2010 LX50
Joined: 04 Jun 2014
Posts: 17
Location: New Zealand
Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:05 pm linkquote
Here the link to my original post way back in June 2014 when I got the LXV125, I attached a video of how it was even before I started to restore it.

http://modernvespa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1835362#1835362

Just think It might help
Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:16 pm

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 40581
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
 
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 40581
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:16 pm linkquote
And my apologies - I gave a link to the wrong LX wiring diagram. I don't seem to have the wiring diagram for the carb'd LX, but the workshop manual does gives clues. http://manuals.wotmeworry.org.uk/Vespa/LX150/

Download and save locally...

If the turn signals don't work, then the CDI may be missing a power source, as the 'flasher relay' is part of the CDI. Check the kill switch operation as well.

Was this scoot ever seen to work?

Note to self - I must find a new source for manuals etc.
Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:25 pm

Member
2006 LXV125 2010 LX50
Joined: 04 Jun 2014
Posts: 17
Location: New Zealand
 
Member
2006 LXV125 2010 LX50
Joined: 04 Jun 2014
Posts: 17
Location: New Zealand
Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:25 pm linkquote
jimc wrote:
And my apologies - I gave a link to the wrong LX wiring diagram. I don't seem to have the wiring diagram for the carb'd LX, but the workshop manual does gives clues. http://manuals.wotmeworry.org.uk/Vespa/LX150/

Download and save locally...

If the turn signals don't work, then the CDI may be missing a power source, as the 'flasher relay' is part of the CDI. Check the kill switch operation as well.

Was this scoot ever seen to work?

Note to self - I must find a new source for manuals etc.
Hi jimc,

thanks. I will start checking the switches and wiring starting with the CDI. Is the CDI integral to the immobiliser in the LXV?
Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:42 pm

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 40581
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
 
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 40581
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:42 pm linkquote
gdeleon wrote:
jimc wrote:
And my apologies - I gave a link to the wrong LX wiring diagram. I don't seem to have the wiring diagram for the carb'd LX, but the workshop manual does gives clues. http://manuals.wotmeworry.org.uk/Vespa/LX150/

Download and save locally...

If the turn signals don't work, then the CDI may be missing a power source, as the 'flasher relay' is part of the CDI. Check the kill switch operation as well.

Was this scoot ever seen to work?

Note to self - I must find a new source for manuals etc.
Hi jimc,

thanks. I will start checking the switches and wiring starting with the CDI. Is the CDI integral to the immobiliser in the LXV?
So I believe.

Check for any other wiring mods that may have been done...
Sun Feb 08, 2015 5:16 pm

Member
2006 LXV125 2010 LX50
Joined: 04 Jun 2014
Posts: 17
Location: New Zealand
 
Member
2006 LXV125 2010 LX50
Joined: 04 Jun 2014
Posts: 17
Location: New Zealand
Sun Feb 08, 2015 5:16 pm linkquote
Continuing the saga of getting my LXV 125 running. I've been checking the wirings and switches and recharging the battery, a different scenario just happened: The turn switches seem to be working. When I turn the key to ON, I get the first long flash and two short flashes after and then the CODE Led remains lit. I am not sure what I did or was it just due to the battery not having the correct voltage. Before, the turn signals were not working, the front lamp is not ON and I did not get the flashing CODE leds - just initially turned ON and then off. I read somewhere what the two flashes means: key not found (bad key or antenna) - the manual says something related. Although I did not get to see it start or run before, the seller I bought it from said it did. I only have the blue/black service key and no master key (red). Can I get a new set of key/ECI/immobiliser? What's it going to cost me? Thanks for any help.
Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:09 pm

Member
2006 LXV125 2010 LX50
Joined: 04 Jun 2014
Posts: 17
Location: New Zealand
 
Member
2006 LXV125 2010 LX50
Joined: 04 Jun 2014
Posts: 17
Location: New Zealand
Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:09 pm linkquote
Found this on Ebay:
Piaggio Vespa CDI Immobilizer Bypass Fits LX 125, Fly, Liberty, ET4 AC19i ACI9I
Replaces OEM AC19 AC20i AC27i CDI. Removes Immobiliser - Removes Immobilizer. No need for Chip Key!
Replaces EFI Technology AC19i / AC20i / AC27i CDI units.
Simply plugs straight in to the existing wiring loom. No wires to cut, no soldering, just plug it in and off you go!
Removes immobilizer, replaces factory CDI. You will no longer require a chip key to start your engine.
Any one out there has used this? It will cost me about 200 NZ$ though.

I wish there was a cheaper solution
Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:42 pm

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 40581
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
 
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 40581
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:42 pm linkquote
You now have a sensible message from the ECU. I'd check the continuity of the aerial (antenna) first, and if good, check there were no other interfering metal bits around when you test with the key. The antenna is relatively cheap to test by substitution (even cheaper if you have a friend who'll let you swap for a test).
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