Sun May 18, 2008 12:52 am

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Sun May 18, 2008 12:52 am linkquote
with out a side by side comparison and with out indepth knowlege and feel for vespas, what's an easy way to tell if a bike is large or small frame?

I know it seems silly but i'm not familiar with vespa's and when i go to look at them it's hard for me to tell if it's "small" or "large" w/o a comparison.
Sun May 18, 2008 1:42 am

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Sun May 18, 2008 1:42 am linkquote
Re: small frame / large frame
A smallframe will not have removable cowls, but rather a small panel-like door on the side to access the engine on the right (and possibly the battery on the left). And the carburetor will be able to accessed by lifting up the seat and lifting out a small plastic glove box.
Sun May 18, 2008 11:00 am

Sir Frets-A-Lot
Vespa GT250ie/L, Honda Ruckus 50, Honda NT700V, Honda CB125
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Sir Frets-A-Lot
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Sun May 18, 2008 11:00 am linkquote
small frames are little.
large frames are big.

it sounds stupid, but if you see a bike that doesn't look like a grown man was to sit on it, then it's prolly a small frame
Sun May 18, 2008 11:42 am

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Sun May 18, 2008 11:42 am linkquote
Small frame:



Large frame:



Largest frame:



Any questions?

Seriously, what Oz said.
Sun May 18, 2008 11:52 am

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Sun May 18, 2008 11:52 am linkquote
If your knees touch your ears when you sit on it, its a small frame! Im about 5'10" or 5'11", and love my small frame.
Sun May 18, 2008 11:56 am

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Sun May 18, 2008 11:56 am linkquote
the tip about the removable cowls was very helpful thank you.

not to split hairs but i realize the small frame will be smaller than the large frame, but with out a point of reference it's hard to know by just looking at a single bike.

I tend to imagine the scooters as being much smaller than they are, so they always look bigger than i expect.
Sun May 18, 2008 12:06 pm

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Sun May 18, 2008 12:06 pm linkquote
Two more: small frame "hips" are pretty flat.

They almost always (??) have the "stalk" turn signals ... they're not built into the body.

P.s. Small frames are more of a kick than you might think. I rode across America on a Vespa-90 ( @ 45 MPH ). The only time it had a problem was near the top of Pike's Peak.
Sun May 18, 2008 12:07 pm

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Sun May 18, 2008 12:07 pm linkquote
Here is a pick of my small frame with my GTS and a friends ET2 that I am taking care of. ET2 is pretty much a large frame.



Sun May 18, 2008 11:32 pm

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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Sun May 18, 2008 11:32 pm linkquote


smallframe or largeframe?
discuss!

best,
-greasy
Mon May 19, 2008 5:20 am

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Mon May 19, 2008 5:20 am linkquote
oooooooooooh, one of the jedi vintage masters has brought on a good one. hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Mon May 19, 2008 5:28 am

Sir Frets-A-Lot
Vespa GT250ie/L, Honda Ruckus 50, Honda NT700V, Honda CB125
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Mon May 19, 2008 5:28 am linkquote
greasy125 wrote:


smallframe or largeframe?
discuss!

best,
-greasy
I can't actually see the pic well cos i'm on my phone but i'm guessing that's a pk125 at which point i'd say it's a smallie.

although, the back is very sloped looking at which point it might be a T5, and i'd just call that a 'frame'. heh
Mon May 19, 2008 5:39 am

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2005 Genuine Stella 150, 2008 Genuine Buddy, 2013 Piaggio BV 350, 2014 Piaggio Fly 150 3v
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Mon May 19, 2008 5:39 am linkquote
Smallies are c. 3/4 size. That's my v90 in between the GTS and the PX150.

The handsome guy is me (OK the bald one with glasses!).

Mon May 19, 2008 5:48 am

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1965 Vespa SS180, 1963 Lambretta LI150
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Mon May 19, 2008 5:48 am linkquote
The picture that Greasy posted is a PK125 ... my FAVORITE smallframe, actually, as the engine is fast as hell and it has the BEST stock brake system of any vintage vespa. It's actually the first vespa drum brake that could STOP the bike It's basically a miniature P-series ... and some people HATE that cosmetically, though .. because it's angular. Someone once told me that they burned the PK's at rallies in Australia, they so hated the looks. They are common in the rest of the world, particularly europe, but not in the US where they were never really imported. ( because legitimate largescale vespa imports died when VespaUSA died in 1982, and the PK came out right around that time )

I wish i had one still ...i had a kitted one and sold it, and it was the fastest scooter i've ever ridden.


Smallframes are different in other ways from a largeframe. If you're just talking cosmetic things, yeah - cowls detach on a largeframe, the engine is mounted way off to the SIDE on a largeframe ...which makes for easy working on it ( particularly on the carburetor )... easy cable adjustments, and you actually get some decent glovebox storage.

On smallframes the engine is CENTRALLY balanced, which is very nice. They feel very light, quick and nimble, ... they make you want to do little cone slaloms on them. On a largeframe, you are continuously counter-balancing the engine because it's mounted way off to one side. On the smallframe the weight is central, and you really notice that when you ride one and then the other.

I don't personally feel like smallframes make good "riding 2-up" bikes. They are perfect for a woman or small man to ride 1-up. They are highly tunable, but not very fun to work on without dropping the engine completely out of the bike. Cable adjustments and carb adjustments are a bitch, as the adjusters are out of reach and tiny.

Glovebox space is NIL on a smallframe, except the PK model above, because they were smart enough to finally put a front legshield glovebox on it.

So, to summarize: Smallframes = fun to ride, suck to wrench on unless you have tiny carnie hands. better for Smaller people ( i look stupid on one ) to ride 1-up on
Largeframes = still fun to ride, but awkward engine balance off to the side, but much easier to work on... better for 2 up or a larger rider... aesthetically a little more "vespa-esque" with more curvaceous body, etc.
Mon May 19, 2008 5:55 am

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Mon May 19, 2008 5:55 am linkquote
Rats! Beat by the expert while I was checking to make sure!

I actually knew that one because I'd been admiring them on eBay in Europe
I've never caught one on the US eBay and most of the ones in Europe are PK 50s
(which makes sense if they are excellent speedy little devils)

Here's a picture of a PK and its proud owner (from the Guernsey Scooter Club webpage):
Mon May 19, 2008 5:58 am

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1965 Vespa SS180, 1963 Lambretta LI150
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Location: Detroit, Michigan
 
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Mon May 19, 2008 5:58 am linkquote
yeah, you can always pick out a PK-series quickly because they have those rhombus-shaped cowl-thingies. ( the one on the glovebox side is actually a small glovebox, but it's for your battery or rectifier / regulator and doesn't add much additional space.


Nice thing about PK's - everthing locks on them - seat, glovebox, and cowl doors on both sides. It stops the annoying problem of the engine-side door flying off on smallframes that i think most of us have had happen.

I've seen so many poor doors that were run over by cars after they flew off the scooter on a busy road.
Mon May 19, 2008 9:10 am

Sir Frets-A-Lot
Vespa GT250ie/L, Honda Ruckus 50, Honda NT700V, Honda CB125
Joined: 03 Nov 2005
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Sir Frets-A-Lot
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Mon May 19, 2008 9:10 am linkquote
hah I guessed pk before anyone and it looks 1" x 1" on my shitty phone!

eat that, 'experts'
Mon May 19, 2008 10:03 am

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Mon May 19, 2008 10:03 am linkquote
As a matter of idle curiosity
(I am not thinking of buying one)...

How speedy are the PK 50s?
Does anyone know?
Mon May 19, 2008 10:05 am

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1965 Vespa SS180, 1963 Lambretta LI150
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Location: Detroit, Michigan
 
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Mon May 19, 2008 10:05 am linkquote
35mph top speed (theoretical ) ... and getting it up there depends on how fat the rider is.
Mon May 19, 2008 10:07 am

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Mon May 19, 2008 10:07 am linkquote
Rover Eric wrote:
35mph top speed (theoretical ) ... and getting it up there depends on how fat the rider is.
Thanks!!

Last edited by TurtleGT on Mon May 19, 2008 10:46 am; edited 1 time in total
Mon May 19, 2008 10:38 am

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Mon May 19, 2008 10:38 am linkquote
No question. It's a smallframe. But it is slightly larger than the original style making it about the best sized vespa ever.
greasy125 wrote:


smallframe or largeframe?
discuss!

best,
-greasy
Mon May 19, 2008 10:56 am

Hooked
'73 Primavera 125 / '05 Stella/ '63 150GL/ '80 PX150E
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Mon May 19, 2008 10:56 am linkquote
BGK wrote:
No question. It's a smallframe.
Yeah I'm pretty sure it actually replaced the Primavera in 1982 after it ended its production run.

<--one of our large frames and our small frame in le image.
⬆️    About 2 months elapsed between posts    ⬇️
Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:19 pm

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--------2008 LX150-------- Sold
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Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:19 pm linkquote
OK, but to simplify it for the dummies among us (like me), which of the current models (Vespas) are large frame and which are small frame? Or are all current models considered large frame?
Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:28 pm

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Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:28 pm linkquote
danny*h wrote:
OK, but to simplify it for the dummies among us (like me), which of the current models (Vespas) are large frame and which are small frame? Or are all current models considered large frame?
None of the current models are large or smallframe, unless you count the last few PX125/150s being sold. They would be large frames. None of the modern automatic vespas fall into either catagory used to describe the manual shift Vespas. One can make analogies or say the GTS is larger than the LX, but it would not be accurate in terms of the meaning of the terms 'largeframe' or 'smallframe'.
Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:57 pm

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Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:57 pm linkquote
A clubmate on one of my smallframes.




Your results may vary. My girlfriend and I are still able to ride it 2-up, though.
Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:28 pm

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Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:28 pm linkquote
is that a common pose on a yellow smallframe? a clubmate of mine on what was mine, now his



Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:40 pm

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Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:40 pm linkquote
yeah people only do that on yellow small frames, us cool guys on white ones are chill.
Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:28 pm

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Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:28 pm linkquote
chill like this dork?



Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:11 pm

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Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:11 pm linkquote
Here's a gorgeous PK 125S for sale on ebay with tons of pictures of all the lockable doors.
Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:52 am

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Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:52 am linkquote
Burnsy wrote:
Here's a gorgeous PK 125S for sale on ebay with tons of pictures of all the lockable doors.
Wow. Not worth that money.

Bodged seat and all it's a nice example of a resprayed early PK125 that is batteryless with turn signals.
Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:52 am

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Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:52 am linkquote
BGK wrote:
Burnsy wrote:
Here's a gorgeous PK 125S for sale on ebay with tons of pictures of all the lockable doors.
Wow. Not worth that money.

Bodged seat and all it's a nice example of a resprayed early PK125 that is batteryless with turn signals.
holy shizza!
i will be more than happy to sell my PK125S for 2500
it's OG red, i've just replaced the headlight unit, and it's got the OG seat on it.

oh... yeah... it's also all tuned out to the nuts with a performance top end and a big ass carb.

but it's as fast as polished steel, and can keep up with a GTS all day long...

best,
-greasy
⬆️    About 4 years elapsed between posts    ⬇️
Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:57 pm

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Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:57 pm linkquote
Quote:
holy shizza!
i will be more than happy to sell my PK125S for 2500
it's OG red, i've just replaced the headlight unit, and it's got the OG seat on it.

oh... yeah... it's also all tuned out to the nuts with a performance top end and a big ass carb.

but it's as fast as polished steel, and can keep up with a GTS all day long...

best,
-greasy
so is that a smallframe or a large?
/would you want to donate her to a worthy cause?

hopeful,

Nigel
Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:23 pm

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Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:23 pm linkquote
nigelicious wrote:
Quote:
holy shizza!
i will be more than happy to sell my PK125S for 2500
it's OG red, i've just replaced the headlight unit, and it's got the OG seat on it.

oh... yeah... it's also all tuned out to the nuts with a performance top end and a big ass carb.

but it's as fast as polished steel, and can keep up with a GTS all day long...

best,
-greasy
so is that a smallframe or a large?
/would you want to donate her to a worthy cause?

hopeful,

Nigel
Just a note to Nigel - this thread is 4 years old...!

Welcome to the site BTW!

Desi B.
Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:43 am

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Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:43 am linkquote
primordialdancer wrote:
nigelicious wrote:
Quote:
holy shizza!
i will be more than happy to sell my PK125S for 2500
it's OG red, i've just replaced the headlight unit, and it's got the OG seat on it.

oh... yeah... it's also all tuned out to the nuts with a performance top end and a big ass carb.

but it's as fast as polished steel, and can keep up with a GTS all day long...

best,
-greasy
so is that a smallframe or a large?
/would you want to donate her to a worthy cause?

hopeful,

Nigel
Just a note to Nigel - this thread is 4 years old...!

Welcome to the site BTW!

Desi B.
lol yeah, I saw that before I posted, but I thought I'd give it a try.
and thank you! It's good to be here. maybe I'll finally find the Vespa for me.
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